Yeah, Mike. Hi Ashwani. Hey Mike. So hi everyone welcome to the show. So this shows dedicated towards reviewing books today Ashley and I will review a book titled indestructible by Nir Eyal. So in your opinion Ashwani. What do you think about the book? So hey Mike, in my opinion. I think this is this is what one of the it's a very similar book to what near Nir Eyal has written before. So basically it's one concept and he's tried to elaborate that concept multiple times through a few more examples. What is missing in this book? I would say is that there is no framework available in this book, like which was there in his last book? So to me, I think this was an easy. Yeah to me. It was just a very Quick and easy to read with the with not much of without much of a practical advice message or learnings. It is a very basic very generic idea and and also covered very generally as well. I had do have a few points which I would like to share with the listeners, but I would love to hear about first your first thoughts around the book. Oh sure. So I really enjoyed the book. I felt that as you said some points repeated throughout the book, but I guess the author did that for emphasis and most of the concepts were quite similar to the 4-Hour workweek. I'm not sure if you read that book. Yes. I have so many of the concepts in this book are similar to those mentioned in the 4-Hour workweek. Especially about management and managing meetings and emails and stuff like that. Correct. Good. Good good. That's right. So I mean, other than that, I think that near actually made some really good points with how to deal with distractions and how to identify them as triggers what triggers the behavior and after you've identified the triggers and you can think about ways you can deal with these triggers. Right? Right. So I think I agree. I agree to your that point that his brocade on interestingly. So for example, so using that distraction is nothing but triggers so triggers they can be external versus they can be internal trigger. And then each trigger then leads you to either traction or distraction traction is what when you are doing controller to enjoy. Yeah when you are moving in the direction, which you want to go where the traction is moving in something opposite or different direction, then you desire to go in so and then he goes down into okay. How do you first manage your internal triggers? So which is okay watch your emotions or watch how you are or watch how you are how you're controlling your thoughts your minds your Or compulsions your addictions so watch all of those and those are under his and then he goes on to talk about more about external triggers which is which is where his core point of the book is that technology has technology made us more distracted or not. So he's saying that in external triggers can be multiple things, but those can be much more controlled as well. Yep. Yeah. Yeah something interesting one of the interesting thoughts which I hadn't thought. Picking up this book was the how do you instill you know, non-distracting behavior in kids? So so yes heaven. So that was something very new and you know, I have very different angle to cover because it's like a it's more of a productivity Centric book, but it's covering that how do we ensure that the Next Generation or the kids also do not do not are much more distracted because they are using lot of devices and doing multiple things. Yeah. Yeah, and actually yeah, we he's presenters is very unique. It's very structured. He talks about how kids actually need three things to succeed which is autonomy competence and being able to relate to other children other people their age, but they don't get that life. They become dependent on technology on social media to get that validation to get that autonomy and that freedom if parents can actually parents can actually give them this autonomy and Tim grow become a competent in real life so they can have meaningful experiences and they can learn how to relate with other children. Then they'll be less dependent on technology. I think that was a very well presented chapter. I agree to that mine, which is that I didn't really like the solution because I don't think that's really the problem or the course solution. I just like the fact that he he highlighted this as a problem and something to think about whether you will have to vary a lot based on situation based on the circumstances of the case. Kids or the wave kids is growing our kids are growing up. So I mean I am not sure I do not know maybe contextual. Yeah vary from person to person they'll all have different consequent all have different circumstance and as result of a will Implement each of these things would be very very different. Yeah. Yeah, the one we have. Yeah, it's all solution. Yeah, because saying that saying that parents today don't give a tone autonomy or competence or there is a dearth for them to relate to be friends of the Rage of orchids of their age, but somehow seems improbable. Of course, they are spending more time using Tech but at the same time they're also spending more time doing a lot of other things as well. So I'm not sure. So anyways, anyways, we're not not crazy. I'm not just getting his idea interesting thing. I think the last thing which I really like About or which usually is there that he does leave the whole platform with a with a small, you know, we with a small rule or or a system to follow. So for example, this time it was ten minute rule. There was something interesting. You know that okay, if you are if you are thinking of a distraction or you're planning to pick up check Facebook, then just wait for 10 minutes simply rule. That's easy to implement. I think that would have been my biggest takeaway from this. Book her for now. Yeah. Yeah to delayed gratification. Yeah. Delete absolutely. So yeah, I completely agree with that. That's something that resonated very deeply with me as well. And I actually also like the way he talks about work culture and how some companies very dysfunctional with how they manage their time. They have companies that are actually companies that I have work assigned to employees which they expect the employees to finish even in their free time. So for example, yeah, so with technological advancements it Basically afforded ease of connectivity and because of that he's of connectivity people can just talk to one another or connect over emails and get into meetings even when they're at home. And if they don't manage that time to achieve work-life balance, then we're not going to have free time to spend with their loved ones their kids their family members friends and he talks about how caring for yourself self compassion as well as making time for yourself and for your own Hobbies. It is very important because if you don't have that balance and you're not going to be productive at work, you're constantly going to be distracted again, Mike again, you know the same so that's why I think that I really didn't like some of the assertions that he's made in the books of for example regarding the work. You know what he said if we are more connected that means that that means we should ideally be more more undistracted right because let's say if I am I'm more connected with my work then Beast Viola at work or while I work is still on my mind and more. I'm more involved in my work right or similarly if I am if I am if I'm at home what I clearly understand is yes, there are boundaries which are now there are no the lines are blurring now between what is home what is often a complete and that and which could be because of the technology which could be because of people now taking work home or we working from home absolutely to that. But again, you know just importing. That supposition that because of the company's this is happening. And because I think it's a lot to do with the personal discipline. No, finally so discipline is very important. Yeah, I completely agree that yes emails are a distraction at times. But if you're checking email every two minutes and definitely it's a distraction if it's like WhatsApp and we do not censor distraction for that. You cannot blame the company. You cannot blame the technology. It's something that you have to instill as a as a professional in you. Maybe delay the gratification or check it after every hour or so something like that true though. I think the point he was trying to make is although technology that is because of technological advancements were able to get more done in a shorter period of time that is true. But if you look at it say even a century ago, Back in the 1900s. We never work at yet done. It always stayed within the office. I mean very rarely Curry actually take those documents home. And even the client meetings the client would meet you at your work place. The colon we aren't really doing our job, right? No, absolutely. It doesn't but this comes out. Yeah, but the other side of the argument is that that's how that's why we have seen productivity in teas. Right then we cannot say that we need to see proposed increase also per capita income also has to increase per your your availability has increased the work that amount of work that you do is also in case if we are living in that kind of time then we should be okay with the productivity we had achieved at the that time as well. The thing technology that way is a great tool in our hand and to use it or to be able to be distracted by it or to be able to leverage it for better productivity. I think we'll have to be a more of a personal discipline thing of course companies can enable it but completely so there are companies even good companies. There are which are okay with employees not doing work from home unless it's stupid urgent something that some of these makes all these guidelines bigger guidelines company. As well said but for a lot of other things it's it comes down to your personal decision as well. If you are in a client facing role and and the role demands you to be available for 10 hours a day, then you have to be available for 10 hours a day now. Now, you know that maybe an office that may be rather technology on the other hand has given you that flexibility that you can go home after six hours and for the other four hours you can be available from home. So I think I get what you're trying. Yes, there are points Point here and there but yeah, this was just my thoughts around it. Yeah, I mean I completely agree with you. I mean that freedom. I mean it's very valuable and that flexibility is also very essential in today's work space. So helps relieve a lot of stress and especially when there are unforeseen emergencies, you can always make it to the workplace that for technology does really really help. Correct. Absolutely, and then all right Mike I oh sorry. He just continued. So what did you think about nice views with dealing with internal trigger triggers the concept of reassessing them and then thinking about ways to let these triggers go or let these distracting thoughts go because I think he started off talking about how distraction for us as human beings is just a means for us to get away from something. Negative or something uncomfortable or something that causes us a degree of discontentment. Right? So he talks about how if we can identify the triggers that I actually make us feel this way and if we learn to let go of these situations then we can actually be less distracted in our lives. So what did you think about that notion? I think I really like the first part of it which is just becoming aware of the emotional state that you are in beadboard amid anger beat frustration just being aware of it. That what distracts you from doing something just being aware of it is is a great starting point now how you handle it after that. So for example, he talks about using certain apps building a pact, you know having packs which make you more focused. So those are those are all the things which will work for certain segments of people but, you know becoming aware of something and you consciously then doing something is absolutely a fantastic starting point beyond that. You know, we are Honored how you want to make your task more fun or prevent those internal triggers from happening is completely up to the individual sometimes for example boredom was something that he highlighted in one of the tricks that he mentioned was. Why don't we Just note it down. And you know as soon as you feel border from something just noted down and track it over time there. Okay, maybe after 10 minutes of doing something. You start feeling bored. You start feeling that each to be distracted or to check your Facebook. Once you start noting it down. Maybe you'll start acknowledging it and thereby maybe that it we can still continue with maybe 15 minutes longer. So something like that is I think that was a great starting point. How you how you deal with it? It's I think it will have to again very person to person. Person so so yeah, absolutely. So for example saving time for yourself, and then this is basically the goes back to the same old rule of planning that okay. You shouldn't pre-plan your day your time in advance so that then the urgent things or the distractions have lesser probability of putting you off schedule, you know, things like that. Yes. Oh, yeah, by the way just a side note. There's this amazing TED Talk. Bye Tim, Al Bundy mobilized or blogger who writes this wait, but why blog and and and that that that is a super counter to this to this book. Actually he talks about why we procrastinate and why do we keep delaying things or why do we keep putting things off things which are important things we should idly do so, it's a very interesting thought or take on why procrastination may not be as bad. It is bad of course, but it may not be as bad. And how do you Deal with it or how do you use it constructively. So it's interesting. So anybody who's enjoyed this book or they should also listen to that that talk by Tim Urban. Yep. Okay. So then it was nice talking to you. Ashley was nice same here my family you points about the book. Perfect. Same here Mike. It was great to know your thoughts as well. Thank you. Okay. Thank you Ashley. So with that we come to the end of the show. Thanks for tuning in. Thanks. Thanks. Bye. Bye.