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First is experience versus relationship or the skills versus relationship. You said, you know new your co-founders better as professionals and relationship. We see founder sometimes picking friends over skills your thoughts on that. That's one the second maybe I list out and then we shot each of those. The second aspect is Passion you hit upon that 3/4 times. We see entrepreneurs coming in pitching ideas, but why is fashion passion important? I love to hear your perspective. then maybe a little bit about how do you split roles as early founding team? You said three founders. How did you split the roles and responsibilities and then finally talked about hiring better people than yourself right? We'll take one at a time any of these we can start with passion. Why is that important? So I think the and the passion is actually an outcome of something passion is an outcome of motivation what you're doing right motivation to start up motivation to get on the journey motivation to get on a mission has to be I think it has people need to get it right and if let's say somebody saying that if their motivation to start up is to become Their own boss, then I think they are actually set up for a huge downward spiral because for me ownership back at IDC ownership at BlackBuck, nothing changed for me. I think they were days where I used to probably slog and you know, I probably had more productive more, you know effective work days back at ITC right rather than it BlackBuck because I think ownership level for me was always saying I don't care about whether you know, what is ownership I have in this company versus. Is that right? I think that's how I'm built naturally. And also I think people around me are like that and thanks to my first boss, right and you rangraj. I think that's the those He instilled those things and those things continue so I don't think so. I think motivation why you trying to do this, right and is really important getting that state or the head, you know for people is important and I think if people get good mentors in their early stage When they startup of getting those aspects right and it need not it cannot be get you know, you cannot get this right by discussion. It has to be more innate and that essentially drives you know passion then essentially what may or we know what say were come you will if your motivation towards your journey is true and correct that exemplifies in passion right in the passion with which you essentially execute those things. So and that among the founding team, it can't be lets you sitting on a boat the three people rowing the boat and if let's say those Three people are rowing the boat is very different frequency. Right? The boat will only turn in circles will not go ahead right? So that's really important. And though these all are quite philosophically statements, but you can see those happening when you have feet in your different fashion than different frequencies on one particular area, and then the world doesn't happen because of these reasons, right? So I think that's really important second question. Anand I think you are before the passion before moving on from Passion. You're also a customer Off the product you currently building your building a market place of trucks and you are buying those trucks on the other side how important was that in developing conviction and motivation around this particular problem. So it was actually it was important from the perspective of really being passionate about the because it really showed the issues in this industry. It really showed that anything you touch will turn into a gold in this industry because of the other so many opportunities, I think making me realize that you know being in that role is really important but not but actually I being a shipper created a bias in my mind to build this business model because I was to shipper centric and I started the entire business, right? So I would say that being in touch with the industry before understanding the pain points and really having a feel for this industry was important but really doing the role of that shipper, there was really not I think a very ideal for me So I think if I would have more unbiased I would probably build the business in a very different manner than what it is today. Right? And that's actually quite good as well. Right and in and of course right in the entrepreneurial Journey you know, you keep chattering out in various territories, you understand a lot of things and you keep turning twisting pivoting as a business model you will get there. But then yes, right. I think being a shipper more From perspective being in touch with the industry and knowing the industry was more helpful and beneficial. than actually being a shipper that's helpful. And then going on to your Team Dynamics the co-founders you pick them for specific skills versus relationship. And how did you split the responsibilities in the early days? It may be related to that. That is the buck stop. Is there a hierarchy among you? How are you these multiple questions that will take it one at a time. So the way you know the way we when we actually coming together. Right, I think to be very selfish right? I think the reason I really wanted to always chanakya was that he used to complement. It was skill sets perspective, right the kind of depth you can get into things right the kind of ways you can execute right? So he's been like thing with only semesters is be 9.5 pluses, right? So I respect that right without was not that right and I think the kind of depth you can get into things right. Is phenomenal and his so chanakya was logically the guy the go-to guy for things after I was essentially transitioning into a business had rolled back at ITC. So there they were a lot of other people with higher seniority than chanakya, right? But he emerged as a number two for me there right and given that those results are so busy for me most of the meeting between chanakya and me used to typically happen after 10 up to early morning of Three-two-three, right. So and point was not that the entire day you are not in touch and entire day working together but there are so many double click's we need to do in sit. We used to only find time post right and that entire work ethic that passion to do things that last mile detail right? I think although aspects but something which because and as a combination to really great when we did those things together. So that's the reason why actually, you know, I wanted to found things with chanakya because I knew that together. It's going to be a great journey. Right on the other side subbu comes with subbu comes with the entire industry knowledge. Right? So Subbu has consulted every large company in India, right? He would have worked with them He would understand those Dynamics right for a business in the B2B Spectrum. It's really important to really you know, know all of these right Beyond this right? He was actually a very good friend right because I think we used to discuss over deals etc. But I think offline there was a huge amount of Engagement, which used to have is to exchange things on Logistics. We should be used to discuss interpersonal relationships. Right Blah Blah! all of those right? So I think so with both of them outside the room it was great friendship right inside. It was cut through professional because there was a lot of projects which subbu is bidding for I did not give him right and I told him this is where you are weak, right at the end of the day. Your organization is weak in this area and it did not give right and because I'm very clear for my professional mandate perspective. So I think the the calls were very clear that were actually adding up complementary skills either it from you know, native capability perspective because super brings in a very different skill set from a you know, people management perspective, right? It has seen building built up of companies and from a perfect chanakya brings in a very different native capability of really going to the depth etc right at the same time. Both of them professionally have had also different experiences, right? So, I think I've looked for huge complementary skills. I looked for huge number of synergies. I looked for a very cohesive team and I think beyond all I was very clear that the reason you are in it right has to be same right for three of us. I think three of us actually this also, you know narrows down into the wavy also split responsibilities and split the company also between us right. So we three come from very three different diverse backgrounds, right? Subbu becomes the large experience Chanakya is about two years of experience when we started the company we split equally because we do not believe in anything else other than equal because we all are and for together now, we all will build it. Let's be equal on the equity. On the equity, Equity being equal was much more decided much more before the responsibilities, right? So the responsibilities when we started the business Subbu needed some more time to join the business. So when we actually hit off right, we did not really structure everything out. So we actually structured it more as product as one piece and businesses as one piece we do not incite business say Ops Marketing sales other will not say right and that was Chanakya, actually when we started of, you know, getting the entire work done through, you know, the developers started building the product as well as the product that guy right and I was more the business guy right going to the market sitting working with the customers pitching etc. Right? So we split the responsibilities between both and it was quite evident that when sort of Subbu comes in he's going to complete the entire customer LED mandate because he is large amount of information there, right? So I think and what more important was that given technology is not was not the code Forte, you know from a Chanakya perspective. we about in a very very early in the journey, about in a leader who could head engineering and Chanaka essentially moved into operations because that became a very large piece in the organization to run and being in trucking operations is one of our core areas to manage. So I think it was quite organic the way we split our responsibility is based on our strengths and based on what I think each of us could do really better be the, you know be the best at it. That's all we started and now it's very different right because I think change is constant every six months. We've been changing a rock structures. And yeah, I think The Core theme is was important that being passionate and really adding to each other right in tough times in great times writing I think was really important in founding the stigma, got it. And how about splitting ties? Did you guys figure out who's going to be CEO? And that is the buck stopped? I think you know, I think it was quite natural right in terms of as I mentioned to you that the skill sets in terms of being complementary and the competencies which people are bringing on to the table. I think that was it was quite clear, right? I think all three of us sort of went ahead and you know sort of chose that tie should be the CEO right and that's how it got it so even though subbu is much older than you guys had that discussion explicitly and decided yet. We had the discussion explicitly in terms of you know, let's say from a skill sets perspective from where the person's responsibility now is more critical and who could do better, right what we just align that and we eventually we organically evolved into those rules over a period of time. So best part was that there was we didn't actually declare who the CEO was, you know to a point in time. It actually naturally evolved into that particular construct and we flew into that. So there was those I think that's again brings back to the context of the motivation of doing it. I think the motivation was not from a designation perspective in even motivation was to really go in and correct this industry and then I think in the organization the way Anand sort of I run it is that I'm never a tiebreaker even let's say today the leadership of the organization is much beyond the founding team. I'm never a tiebreaker. I hate being a tiebreaker and I hate my leaders to make me the tiebreaker. So I think the expectations is very clear. I think I don't remember in the last one year. I have not resolved even a single time. So I think tiebreaker is not the way we also run today, right? So I think every leaders has alone area is very clear on that clear on the Strategic alignment and he would take a call and if let's say it's going to be go, you know here or there. I think we'll just go in and solve for it over a period of time. There are no actually tiebreakers.