Hello on your nice of you to join today with us. I will shake nice to be here. Yeah, and I would like to welcome you to this open Talk platform for the first time and I can see that you had have a very interesting bio marketing. Public Relation public Mentor people Mentor marketing startups and Brands right? Yep. So should we wait for a few people to join our how do we how do we do it? We start straight away. Yeah, we can just start away with the introduction of ourselves and gradually people will join and then after this this call also got get recorded So Many Lives can also listen to it after we had this open Talk. Okay, that's perfect. That's perfect. Yeah, so I'm a marketing. Yeah, sorry. No, I was just giving a little bit a little brief introduction about myself. I am working in right currently working as a open Talk user as of now and open talk and I am given this opportunity to talk with you today. And I feel extremely delighted to have this conversation with you today. And right now we are getting one person listening to us and very welcome to that person. Of now and we have also gotten this topic of marketing minting money or public relations. So can you tell me about this topic and your bum? Thank you so much. First of all, I will shake for inviting me to the platform sure and as I can see you're so Keen to learn about this and you know, the one of the reasons why I do this any kind of sharing beat my be school mentorships or be it these kind of podcasts. It's basically to not just share my gun so to say but also to listen to Young people like you who are now living the life who are right now, you know growing up in an emerging India. So it's actually, you know, the privilege is all mine actually to share the platform with you and listen to all young people and in this process is also a learning process for me as well. Yeah. Yeah, right and we have also started gotten the comment from the user. It says, it's me. Thank you sunshine is commenting right now. Call sometime if you have any questions, you can ask in this open talk later later on because and right now on an album will be sharing his views on this topic. That's perfect. So so whatever I'll share today. Basically before that. I will give you a few disclaimers. Okay. So first of all, I am a marketing person for the last more than a decade. So around 12 13 years been in sales and marketing both in some very very big marketing driven consumer food companies. Okay. So this is a topic which is very close to my heart, right? I am a marketing profession by livelihood for very strong view on this. So you may or may not agree with me. You may disagree with me. That's perfectly fine. And I will be very very happy to take questions at the end of the session. Okay? Yeah. So first of all coming to the topic of for today, which is minting money or public relations, so I think it's a very provocative headline quite I'm quite delighted to have this very provocative headline because what it does is it forces you to think it forces you to you know, understand what's there in the in the in the person's mind and you know it Wishing you to make the point that much harder right true. So let's let's first of all start with marketing. Yeah. So so, you know when I when I when we go to be school or when we look at advertising, you know, when we when we see when we watch TV when we watch any kinds of promotion for a product or a brand on our digital platforms one thing which you will see is yes, they are trying to convey a change of behavior. Okay, if it's a Cola ad that you are seeing that Cola ad is telling you that look at me anybody who drinks this is so cool. Okay, so it's trying to evoke it's trying to basically impact a change of behavior in you and why are they doing it? Eventually all marketing leads to or should lead to change of buying behavior and should eventually result in revenue for the company or revenue for the So would you say it's meeting money? Yes, probably a bit harsh. But yes, it's a profitable Venture definitely to me marketing is one of the most Critical or strategic pillars of any company if a company is marketing well means the company is able to change Behavior constantly for its users and it's helping its users make a decision in their favor. So that their products are getting getting sold their services are getting sold and yeah, definitely it results in so to say as you're calling it money minting or you know in revenues in the form of sales. Sure, that that's true and if you see from a profit and loss point of view also. Marketing is one of the most costliest lines in the pnl. So if you talk to a CFO or if you talk to a finance head of a big company he or she will always tell you that we are spending a lot of money in marketing. Okay, and if if they're spending a lot of money in marketing, they're not fools, of course any good marketing campaign should impact change of behavior. And as I said, it should result in Roi it should result in revenues. to result in more sales either that can be in the short term or the medium term or the long term depending on how these companies are defining their timelines true. And again, this depends on different kind of product product categories. If let's say this is a fast moving impulse product. They show you a campaign. They want you to consume today tomorrow within the same period okay, if there are companies which have a slightly higher life cycle, for example, let's say somebody is For a car what that person is trying to tell you is when you consider buying a car the next time or when the next Diwali comes or when the next dhanteras comes and you're thinking of making a purchase, please make sure that you keep us in your consideration set. Okay. It may not be a situation where you watch our campaign for a car and you immediately pick up your you know, your checkbook and you go to the showroom and buy a car. It doesn't happen like that, but it's trying to evoke. A sense of change of behavior. It provokes a thought in your mind so that you end up ultimately making a purchase decision in the favor of the brand. True. Yeah, I know all your screen. Sorry. I've also seen many sales person in this card car showrooms. Like we want we have told them or budget like I want to buy this vehicle at Six Flags, but they tell us if you add 10,000 or 20,000 more you will get these features. So I think this is it is also a level of marketing right looks to me I have always believed again. On this if you search the internet, you will find lots and lots of theories. But to me good sales practices are always a subset of marketing. Okay? Yeah. Well good thing the story is marketing. Okay, the story is not sales. The story is marketing. So when a salesperson tells you so if you put 10,000 more I will be able to give you a power steering if you put 20,000 more I'll give you a power window. Okay, that's really lovely able to come up with the story is Salesmanship. Okay. Okay. However, the story that the person is giving is actually marketing. Okay, the marketing guys who would construct these stories at the back end and who would say okay, the base model is at 5 lakhs 5 when people see a price tag of five lengths they will walk into the showroom. And then you try to help them make a stronger purchase decision in the favor of our brand by giving them this story and then a good salesperson is able to pick up these marketing preparedness or these marketing storylines and deliver a very very strong sales pitch. But the story is true C is on marketing. Yes. Yeah an awful lot of people also confuse marketing or salesmanship with you know, as they say in the you know Bates Dia, you know, or you know that you know or just making false promises that's never marketing. That's fraud. Okay getting at all marketing is always about helping the person realize there. The hidden true needs it's never about you know, making a false promise and making a sale in the short term because that person is never going to come back. That's not marketing. Yeah. Yeah. So marketing is the second point of our topic which is Public Relation, right? Yeah. So we need to maintain that relationship relationship with the users. So again, if you ask me I think marketing is a much broader topic and Public relations is sometimes seen as the separate topic and sometimes it's seen as a subset of marketing itself. Okay. Now what is public relations typically in typical in most in most big companies, you would have a corporate Communications team who would have very good relations with big media houses. They are the ones who control a positive narrative about an organization or a brand they are not very short-term Focus. We have mostly long-term focused. Okay, I'll give you an example today in the world. What is the biggest most hottest trending topic? It's coronavirus. Okay, correct. Now a company which is so let's say there is a cruise cruise line company which deals in tourism. Let's say in China now their business is badly hit now this Cruise Line company, they will probably make a campaign to you know, give discounts and you know get people back into China to travel. That's a The marketing campaign. Okay. Now, what would a PR campaign look like a PR campaign would probably look like an unbranded piece of communication, which is not from a brand. It's probably from a very big company or sometimes even from the government saying it's safe to travel to China. We have so many Health measures in place. You have nothing to worry about but it's not promoting a particular brand or it's not telling you to come in by it's just reassuring you about a positive imagery about the country or know the the industry and so on. Okay. Yeah, it's the same with consumer goods as well. So if you again if take the same example as cars, you know campaign for let's say Tata Motors. So let's say Tata indicom comes up with a I don't know if they have still have this brand in India, but they used to have a very successful brand called Tata, Indica. Okay, so Tata Indica, when they do a campaign, they will talk about the features of the car. We'll talk about you know, how it's good on mileage. It's a nice car. It feels good when you drive it on the highway and so on. River a PR campaign would probably be done by Tata Motors, which is the parent company which will not promote a brand very very straightforward, but we'll talk about you know, the fact that you know, Tata Motors is a bit responsible company. The Tata cars are always very reliable you have, you know, you have a sense of assurance, you know when you buy to the brand, okay. So the two are kind of connected. But they are very very different as well. Also, you will see public relations is often used in times of Crisis. Okay. So again taking the example of the car industry. If you see, you know, there are often complains that you know particular company had a faulty part and they were X number of recalls happening in the market, you know, a model got recalled from from from buyers right at that point. The brand will not do a campaign now brand will not It will please come by my car and they cannot you know, they cannot avoid the issue of The Fault in the car. However in the long-term interest of the company, maybe the company will do a public relations campaign and say, you know, our cars our final maybe not cause the final doc or something else completely they'll talk about corporate social responsibility. They'll talk about what they're doing for the planet and so on, you know, which helps build build back Trust on the mother brand. Or the mother company. Yeah. So yeah, so PR and marketing they go hand in hand. But PR most often than not is more is either a more long-term positive brand imagery building or used in the short-term only when there is a crisis and they need to change consumer perception or user perception very very fast. On the other hand marketing campaigns are typically short term driven medium term driven, which is completely connected to your return on investment. And this is all to do with changing user Behavior evoking a change of response, you know consumer behavior in the short-term the medium-term. So that's how I see the difference. Yeah. Yeah and this answers the question which Sunshine gave us now, which she is asked that what is the basic difference between PR and marketing? And after that, we also got some comment and question from author devika. She has asked voice marketing given less importance in a company more focus is given to sales. Well, that's a very interesting one good question. There we go. So I think so. I would partially agree to this. Okay, I would partially agree to this today in a very very turbulent economic scenario. What happens is companies are leaving by the Potter their living by the month. You don't know what happens to your company one year from now, right and you will always hear your sales bosses or your business boss is telling you that you know guys, if we don't deliver this quarter XYZ will happen, you know, your layovers will happen. You will not get a bonus. It's not going to bonus next fiscal. Okay. So what happens is end. It ends up being a very short-term Focus from companies they end up believing which is actually not true not correct, you know, they end up believing that a short-term sales push will help them get over all their troubles in life. Okay malware is the or you know as they say indium Albedo. Everything will be fine. It never works out. Okay. Yeah, and as I said marketing as a cost center is usually Lee one of the most expensive cost lines in the pnl so people tend to think that marketing okay, we don't know whether the cup campaign will do well or not. Maybe I can save money over here. Maybe I can save money over here build my bottom line build my profits and rather push the sales guys to sell more but as I said earlier without a good marketing Story, the sales guy was the sales guys would not have enough ammunition in the market or in the showroom to tell the stories. Right to imagine this if car brand does not do enough marketing. The consumers would not even first of all walk into the showroom at the first place. What would the sales guys? Do you can't go door-to-door and sell cars? Right, so it's true for many other categories as well. I can keep going on and on with analogies in different categories. But since we are talking about cars as an example, that's that's the difference to you. The other thing is a lot of business heads in the in the corporate world. You would see many of them actually come from a sales background, you know, they did very very well throughout their careers. They have done well on business they've delivered numbers month on month year on year decade on decade and they end up being very very senior people. In the corporate world many of them don't have a very strong appreciation of marketing as a function or they don't have an understanding of marketing as a function. However, in companies where you see CEOs are coming from marketing background or even from a finance background who understand it on an investment, you will see marketing being treated as one of the most strategic pillows in that company. So that is true. I'm sure that answer the question from Moto devika and she has also said that they'd Point made by an air pump a soup. She's keep asking question in questions. There's another question from her. If you like to answer that question, what shouldn't Market is due to make their presence presence felt in the company. So this is more of a career management question to me looks like a rocket. I think a big Problem with a lot of marketers that I've seen throughout my career and I think even I have been in that trap sometimes is that we lose focus on the end game on the business. Why do we exist first of all marketing exists at the first place to make the sales guys job easier? Okay A lot of times. I have seen the marketing people living in their world of big juggle, you know as they say again in India. Nobody body butter, you know, they will talk a lot of jargon, but they don't know exactly how business Happens correctly they don't know exactly how business happens and hence their plans are not relatable to the field Force. Okay, and we see these options every now and then we see these examples every now and then so often we see a campaign on TV and we say, how how does that relate to this brand? How does it relate to the product? Okay. Now this was some great marketer who thought this campaign would work but to you it makes no sense. Okay now if you are a market here Understands the entire value chain of business you understand. What is your impact on the business? What action from the marketing team will lead to what kind of sales then you will not struggle to make an impact for yourself in your organization. But the day you cannot explain that, you know, how you can how your actions or your function which is marketing you marketing function actions are relating to or translating into eventual sales or return on investment. You will always always struggle to make a mark for your thin the in the company and this is true for every function. It's true for HR as well. Unless HR is is built in a way that their policies are helping the company deliver more more efficiently or you know with more capabilities. HR has got no no reason to exist. So it's true for it's true for every every function. I would say in a business not just only marketing. All right. So remember we were getting an called request as of now, but it has enjoined but if we get two more requests will be able to join you guys and from Sunshine we have got a question. What are the tips to generate a Goodwill among the consumers? What are the tips to generate a Goodwill among the consumers? So first of all marketing and salesmanship and again lot of people use these terms interchangeably people think it's a use of smart words people think it's a it's a it's a game of you know, again are using the opp Nadia. Okay, it's not so first of all, it has to be genuine. Okay, you talking about Goodwill? It has to be completely genuine you need to as the marketer. You need to yourself believe in. Story that you're telling maybe maybe you tell the story 200 people 50 people will say. Oh you are a fraud. That's okay. But as long as you yourself believe in the strength of your own story and you tell it in a very genuine way, then it makes sense. Then, you know, you will start making Goodwill. You should never lie about the claims. Your products are making. Okay, you know, I see I see a lot of Brands which Makin A lot of local Brands actually not the got the big multinationals. You know a lot of local Brands they end up making crazy kind of claims, you know, you know, you take this job and brush and you will become a he-man know when you do stuff like that eventually some negative news will come about you do in the in the press and so I will not name the brand a very popular brand in India, which is which is led by one of our very popular Bubba's, you know, so that that brand or in a lot of trouble why because apparently that brand they don't have the right approvals. From The Regulators in this country on a lot of products. Okay on the other hand, they are saying you know about the completely sorry. She we are completely organic or we are completely authentic president of the day. They have not even passed the examinations in the laboratory. They are not certified products. They're actually coming your Goodwill. So if you're looking at creating Good Will Find find a story, which you You're still believe in make sure it's credible and then you don't stop at it, you know, then then you go completely overboard in convincing people about that story. Yeah, there is true. And also unable I want to tell you that authored a week or wants to connect with us. Are you comfortable with that? Yeah, that's fine. Yeah, so let me connect her with you on this open talk and Hello. There you go. Hello? Thank you for joining us on this open talk today. At the viewer. Can you hear us? You can go ahead and depression. Yeah. Yeah. Hi. Hello. I was asking a lot of questions right now. So I am in marketing and I am into it services company is into it Services. Now, as you know, the IT services service industry as a whole has a lot of competition and there are many and they Many top players as well. Now, how do since we are selling the sames since we are selling or offering the same Services. What is your advice for B2B marketers in the IT industry service description excellent question. So first of all, I will begin my answer with a disclaimer. Okay, and the disclaimer is that I have never worked in a B2B Market myself. Okay. Okay. Okay. However, however, I've always worked with me to see Brands. However, I I am a strong believer that the basics of marketing do not change what changes in a b2c versus a B2B is whom are you marketing to? Yeah. Yes. That's the only different but the basics of marketing don't change. Okay? Okay. So the question that you asked let's say I will take the same question. Let's say in the chips industry. Okay. Yeah today when you go to the market you go to the grocery store and you'll probably see more than 10 15 brands of chips, correct? Okay. Lot of competition every chip looks to be you know, a replica of the one which is hanging next to it. Okay, but each one of them are trying to come up with a unique selling proposition about their own brand. Yes as a commodity as a product maybe all of them are same all of them are made from the same kind of potato. They have the same kind of production lines become probably they are made in the same plant sometimes but they're branded differently and they tell us different story. Okay. Somebody is promising. Let's say a strong taste. East somebody is promising very good digestion. Somebody's promising that you know, when you eat me eat it the strip, you know, you look so cool. You know, are you have Ranbir Kapoor as the brand ambassador? So we'll come up with a unique selling story of because but we could but the product Remains by and large the same it's there's not much different situation. Okay. Now, let's come back to your industry very very competitive. Everybody's looking at Cost. Okay that you notice is the service. How much will you give it to me at what cost right? No, this is where your value added Services comes in. Okay, are you a company which Prides itself on after-sales service there? Once you become a customer with us you look at our client base. We support you the best with our software with our Hardware we support with the best in the long term. Okay. We are available 24/7 as a care line if your engineers are facing a problem with the software at 1:00 in the morning. We are there as a service set up to help you out. Okay. Mmm. So again, I don't know it industry but there are so many more things than the service itself or the product. Yes that you can you know, it's all about finding. What is the Real Pain point of your customer? Okay. Once they buy the product or before they buy the product what are their key tension points? If you know your customer will then you can press the right buttons. Okay, if I know that, you know typically after they buy a new software. You know adopting that into their system getting people trained, you know, getting it making it a part of their culture making it making them comfortable to use it with these are all pin points probably for you for each of your customers. So either you can incorporate that in your string story itself saying this is what we do after you become a client. Maybe there is a there is a chance that you will be able to differentiate yourself. Yes, that is a very valid point a very valid point point that you have made. I would also like to I would also like to make share my view about what I think after working. So so many years once I have one thing that I have observed is that the sales and marketing team should be synchronized. Well secrecy synchronized in order to generate a good marketing campaign, but in many companies his does not happen. So how do you convince convince your top bosses to coordinate to maintain that coordination between sales and marketing? Yeah, I'm going to go ask me weight of questions. And these are actually company people culture kind of questions. So again as a marketing person as a mid senior marketing guy in a company, how do I coordinate with the sales guys? So guys first of all, how many times have you understood what's the life of a sales guy? So I started my life in sales. Okay, how many times do your marketing person going to the field and working with the sales guy? So let's say next time your sales guy goes out to pitch. To a big company go along see how his day looks like look at you know, what are the what are the crazy questions that our client is asking for for the next time he is on the phone with a buyer, you know, he is getting tough questions be a part of that call BS silent Observer two things happen. When you do this one, you get to understand your customer much better and you are able to equip your sales team with much better stories storylines. Okay, the second is it builds your proximity? Tea with the sales team you build trust they will tell you more you will tell them more it starts building trust and you start breaking silos, you know, you could be in marketing and somebody else could be in sales. But ultimately you're playing for one team playing for the company. If the company doesn't do all of you falter, right? So so take a step take a step be a part of his or her life be a part of the struggle that he or she is having and then you will learn about you know, what are the struggle? They're having one and secondly, you also build a truck. Emmitt, you'll build trust and for this you don't need any senior leadership to tell you that you can always make friends in Steam and you can do it yourself. So it starts with one and when people see you shining or when people see that okay, the sales team is talking only about Davey cover. There is marketing everybody else will start probably following this best practice or this kind of proximity. Okay? Well, you could try it out. I'm just under so, you know, I'm just sharing my thoughts. No, no, no, no, very nice. Very nice. I will try to implement this and see. Yeah, obviously there is a there is there are lessons to be learned. So the this is this is something I can try and and one more thing and one more thing. I would like to ask see the many many companies use marketing tools like automated automated for automated campaigns. Would you suggest would you suggest the a small start-up or mid-sized middle sized company to you? Is automated marketing tools or would you would you recommend it only for the top companies large companies again completely depends on the objective of the campaign today. There are enough and more tools available in the market for all of its size has big company can do it a small company can do it and especially after digital has kind of kind of exploded, you know, the world of marketing these possibilities are Limitless. Okay, so I wouldn't I would always just marketeers keep your eyes and ears open. Okay, when I was very very young brand manager. We did not have so many digital options. Now, there are so many options. Sometimes you are spoiled for Choice. Okay. So again, I don't think it's a small company which is a big company question. It is all about. What is it appetite? What is your objective for that small company or the big company and to get to that objective. How many people do you need to reach out to? What kind of message is do you need to deliver? Are they complex messages are or the simple messages? If they are complex messages, you need to push on frequency more and more time same message so that it gets clear. If it's a simple message maybe once or twice you give the message and it's simple to your consumer to understand right? So depending on also many variables and maybe you know, you should work with a quitter media team with a media company which helps you understand what these tools do for you in the market. Thank you. Thank you so much for your valuable inputs, and I would love I would love to connect with you worried over LinkedIn. My pleasure, ma'am. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing your views. Thank you. Thank you so much for Debbie Kapoor joining with us and asking those hard questions with another one. That was so lovely of you. Fantastic, so I I can see this one more question. How can we make PR activities cost-effective? This is a tricky one. This is a tricky one. So first of all, we need to understand how is PR used. So if I can just refresh what I said sometime back PR is usually used in medium to long-term Horizon to build a positive narrative about a company or a brand. Okay. It has it has an overarching principle on on sales overarching effect on sales Etc, but it's not very direct. It's not very direct. Okay, every time you see a news article that a company is doing something for CSR Etc. Trust me. It is a PR campaign. The company wants you to view this company differently. The company wants you to think that this company responsible company and so on. How do you make it cost effective? It's a very tricky discussion in my career. I have never found the answer to this because it never delivers against an Roi. It's never that, you know, I do a PR campaign today and in two months time, I will sell 10% more. It doesn't happen like that appear campaign helps a company build a long-term future for itself, which is kind of a it's kind of a safety net. You know tomorrow something happens people will be slightly more lenient to you. There's a fault in your product people will be slightly more lenient to you because the back of their mind they have a positive disposition about you as a company or as a brand. Right, so we will see in this in a maruti Suzuki fantastic brand for so many years, you know, they were Undisputed leaders in the car segment. Why because you know, we had the back of our mind that these are the most reliable machines. We are always near a multi-service center. I can always get help I can always get supporters, you know, we people to help me out if I'm in trouble. So that is a that is a perfect case study of know how they're built PR over a period of many decades not just one or two. Yes, so yeah in that perspective of how can we make PR activities more cost-effective? I think it starts with not keeping an Roi you can maybe keeping some different kind of kpis which is how we seen as a brand maybe some brand Equity measures. How are we seeing in our trust measures etcetera etcetera, but not on our way. Yeah, there is 201 and what I got from this was that it is a generally to fix those holes, which we create which the companies create. It's not about getting more profits is about preventing those losses. Correct? Absolutely. Absolutely. So take any company that comes to your mind. You know, when they do PR around it. They're basically creating a safety net for themselves because that you know, every company will go through one or two crisis every Okay, and when the day of the crisis happens people will tend to see you differently depending on what your storytelling has been in PR over a period of many years. True true. So I've basically learned on very new things from you and author the day we can as well I was loving this conversation with you guys and I'm sure many people will want to connect with us today. And if you are there any any more listeners right now all 64 people are listening to our conversation and we were often if somebody wants to join in and ask a question. Yeah, but I personally think that people are getting their own sub even before asking because you are too much informative and you are so much interested in talking about what this topic is today right now. I just think you guys are being a very generous set of people set of listeners. This is my first podcast is being extremely kind to be. Yeah. So this is the time kind of direction. We want to give our listeners and our and our others who want to make their own talk shows on this platform. Yeah, I think it's a wonderful initiative. So we'll wait for a few more questions if they come ahead but yeah, I mean till the time we get more questions I can I can tell you my personal experience. So I joined this platform just today itself and it's wonderful to be sharing Thoughts with 60 70 of you already. So yeah, it's it's a wonderful platform and you know I said, I'm a marketing student for life and after sharing my thoughts with all of you some of my convictions get stronger some of my thoughts get clearer and that's the you know, that's the selfish reason why I do this. So also I want to let our listeners know that this is not a piece of cake takes hard conviction and our dedication and don't we get don't get scared like on how much better level or on a bun bun is that there was a time when he also started his career, correct? You started your career from Seals. And you knew like how much work goes into the ground level. So after that step by step you went on to the better levels, correct? Yeah, we by the grace of God. Yeah. Yeah. And there's also one more question from sometimes. He's not connecting with us, but she is asking question on comments. That's it, sir. Tell us about your way of damage control in marketing. Yeah, so this is another interesting question. And so usually Market takers are not very good at this huh? Because typically in be schools and typically also when you're a young brand manager or you start your career, you're always taught to do positive campaigns. You know, how can you put out a positive story to to as I said, you know to to to evoke a change in Behavior, okay, and we keep doing this for years and years when we are hit by a Crisis, okay, and there are so many of them. There are so many of them. I don't want to mention my own brands for obvious reasons, but you know, I like it. I like in go back to the I'll go I'll go back to the story of you know, if you see if you see car companies or even the most in the hottest one right now the Boeing crisis, you know, so the as we know the Boeing the new model has not been doing too. Well, there were Tree crashes imagine the kind of Crisis the brand is in and right now Boeing is not doing a very great job at least through their marketing or their PR to come out of it. Okay, and again for us it's very easy to sit outside and give commentary but it's it's very difficult. It's very very difficult because you do have shareholders. You do have short-term sales revenue, you know bottom line Top Line to deliver at the same time, you know, it's not going to Happen why because the brand is now seen with suspicion. The brand is not trusted anymore. People are afraid to fly on a on a Boeing particular model. Okay. So what what can marketing do I think more than marketing? It's a corporate strategy. Okay. So first of all, do you acknowledge the problem or four or are you brushing it under the carpet? It starts with acknowledging the problem and then a very senior level discussion in terms of you know, how do we respond to this? Do we communicate openly about what the problem was to the general public to the media and also be very clear about what are you going to do to come out of this? What are you going to do to make sure it doesn't happen in the future. Is it easy? Absolutely not absolutely not what can marketing do about it again. Absolutely by being genuine and by being patient. I'm a big believer that you know time heals everything including Isis in the consumer world. So yeah, you need to be absolutely genuine about the story that you are telling and again being patient, you know, and never never never ever, you know, brush try to brush a crisis under the carpet because when a crisis is small with having not spread enough, it's probably easy to mitigate and when you when you avoid it, it becomes a big crisis and we have enough number of examples if you look at the Get there the internet will educate you about so many consumer crisis across many many categories. Yeah, that is true. And also you run like you said it's not easy, but I think it's worth it. If you know, right absolutely and I see there's one more very very interesting question. Lastly tell us interestingly. She say she or he is saying lastly which means probably I'm going on and on and now they want this podcast to finish so class that has helped keep oneself seen in the chaos. Okay, so if the chaos is Crisis Or any kind of kills first of all tell yourself that this is an opportunity. Okay, when there is a crisis you will always have an opportunity to shine because when there is a crisis you will see people leaving the company the leadership not agreeing to each other you will see many problems happening in companies. You take the example of any good CEO any famous CEO in the world and you know, you go through their careers what they did. What was the turning point in their careers? You will always see that there is a crisis moment in their company where they stood up and they did something for the company. Okay coming back to this question. How do you remain sane simply by being ambitious? Okay, if you if you love your company, if you love your brand, you have to be seen if you love yourself if you love your career and you want to make the most of an opportunity you have to be seen okay, if it requires you to probably meditate in everybody has a different. Current way of managing their sanity, for example, I play video games or I play sports over the weekends. Okay Illustrated for what's happening outside. They're in my office. Okay. So have your non-negotiables in place. You could find sanity in your family. You don't discuss work when you're back home. I find it very difficult to do. You know, I always end up discussing with my wife, but all of you will have different ways of coping with pressure, but eventually I can tell you the driving force for he has always been Whenever there is a crisis big or small. It's an opportunity to shine by by standing up and doing something for your brand for your company. That is correct. That is true. And I also agree with this and I will also like to tell that if you are doing it, you should know why you are doing it. Just ask yourself this question like not what are you doing? But why are you doing it? Right? Yeah start with Y. So, you know, there's a very famous Concept in the book also by somebody that I really follow called Simon sinek and you know, he talks about this concept that you know start with why No, same person. Yeah, absolutely. So if you see most of these questions over here, you know, we have been discussing since the last 40 minutes or so about the how yeah, but always starts with the why you know, why are you doing a campaign? Why is there a crisis? Why are you doing the job at the first place and probably sometimes when you dig deep and find the answers, correct, and that will that is what will motivate us the most correct? Absolutely. It's worked for me. I don't know whether it works for all of you or not, but it's work for me. So I'm just saying. Yeah, I'm sure that many of our users are finding it very inspirational as you can see the comments here. Ok, so we keep going at it. So maybe last couple of questions and then we close because now I can see probably in a sunshine mentioned lastly tell us or maybe maybe maybe I'm going on and on about now. Yeah, so I'm mindful of the time so I'm not in India, but I'm in a different time zone but it's okay. I can go on if people are still having enough energy on the call. Otherwise, yeah, we can take a couple of blasts - clothes II think we can have a large question and that is Motor devika as well. And this is how do we maintain a balance in our marketing efforts and not drag about her product service and online marketing? I think it's a it's a very basic one. I mean you would you know, a marketer would know when I you bragging and when are you talking about a true benefit? Right? Yeah, you know what I have found is at least in your industry that we gotta come up with testimonials, you know in your industry. You would definitely have a list of clients who are very happy about your service. How are you doing with your testimonials? How are you doing with your real-life case studies? Right, which is not true for consumer marketing consumer companies consumer companies, you know, they are so spread out it's so it's very difficult to accumulate or you know, aggregate consumer feedback and bring it together as a report but for B2B companies probably it slightly easier. I don't know. Yeah, so so that's something that you could try out apart from that, you know, as I said, you know in your heart when I Bragging too much. When are you going overboard? When are you making false claims? And and when are you genuinely trying to help your customer solve Attention Point? Yeah. So as long as it addresses Attention Point you find if you are not addressing Attention Point and you're just putting out a story out there just for eyeballs. I think it's yeah, you're bragging a bit too much about your product or service. Yeah and completely of the topic. I personally feel that they've we also know that it's a very basic question. But the main point here is that she wants to know your opinion on this. No, of course not. Yeah. Absolutely welcome and also, you know, there are 80 odd people listening on the podcast. I'm sure a lot of them have the same question, but they are not probably, you know, taking the initiative. So all the questions help. Yeah. Yeah and apart from these live uselessness. We will also get more listeners as this conversation gets recorded and it will be Can be played again, correct? That's fantastic. Yeah, so if any offer users or any for listeners are the one wishing to have a question or want to have a talk with an admin, which you can you are most welcome. They because commission you for your input. I have learned a lot of lessons now all so much likewise likewise likewise from your experience any questions you have Abhishek. You've been listening patiently for so long. Yeah. I myself is a very keen listener to all the conversations and like you said in the beginning of this conversation. Like you said that marketing is one of the most important and most Revenue in cultivate ink Getting business. I also feel that research and development is all the most important part. You're right. You're right. In fact, at least the industry in which I work marketing and R&D actually work hand-in-hand and itself and a lot of times. It's actually marketing Which shapes the direction in which R&D Works marketing is the one which knows its customers. The best marketing should be the one which would be laying the agenda for the whole company marketing should be the one which should be telling R&D that you know, these are the future Trends coming into our Market. These are the future Innovations. We should be focusing on and then R&B start shipping. It's work its work streams, you know, it's never the other way around. It's never that it's never that. You know, I can make this car. Can you sell it never it's always the other way around, you know, it's always the market you're saying, you know consumers are getting more and more environment conscious. I think we should start getting into electric cars are D. Can you start making an electric car for me? And then R&D starts making electric car? It's never the other way down. Um, yeah, so I think it goes from y to how absolutely absolutely and R&D is all is mostly how they can also be the why but they're mostly how in a company but we are marketing has to always be rooted in the why Yeah, that is very important. If I learnt a lot from this and my second and last position was that you said that marketing is very important. But I feel there's a company it's from it's the xiaomi India and the starting I feel that they would not focusing a anything on marketing and still they were able to make a huge out of them themselves, right? That's a very interesting observation Abhishek. I would say it's probably because swipe first of all, I partially agree with you. Okay? Okay to me to me it is. You know, how we Define marketing. Okay. All right. Sometimes we think that you know doing big TV campaigns with a celebrity is marketing maybe not. Okay. So if a company is coming in with some new features and they're promoting themselves only on e-commerce and saying okay we will Give you a flash sale, you know, we will be doing a flash sale. We have these features and we'll be doing a sale online. It's not available in stores will be doing it online only for 30 minutes and it's only available By Invitation making very exclusive that itself is a lot of marketing. That's a lot of marketing. But because we don't tend to see the traditional form of marketing which is, you know, a big celebrity posing with the phone on TV on Billboard's we tend to think that these they are not marketing. But it totally depends on how you Define marketing sometimes not doing enough, you know, just by being very exclusive that itself is a strong marketing statement. Okay, so it's like this topic which we are having today. It's a very attractive topic people will see it and they will be attracted as of them and you will not advertise this topic anywhere else, but when the moment when the listeners see this topic, they will come and they will be interested in listening to our conversation, right you could say that you know, when in fact our call got rescheduled a couple of times today. I don't think we had enough. Time to reach out to many listeners, but you know after we started in the conversations have flown through sometimes, you know, not doing enough marketing and just the you know, just just just giving them genuine story is very good Marketing in itself, you know, and now I can see there are a hundred ten people into the call and you know this probably much higher than what we initially expected, right? So yeah, that is true only goes back to how you Define marketing. Yeah, absolutely and I very much like John so which you gave up in regards to that xiaomi, India By the way, if you go on LinkedIn the the the MD of rajamma India manou Kumar's in exactly. So he's one of the most visible people on LinkedIn, right? Yeah. I can see that now I can see that down. That is PR / marketing, you know, so yes, you could argue that. No, this is personal branding, etc. Etc. The guys doing a great job in putting the brand out there, you know, he's creating an image for himself. And for the company is when and The Brandon who's representing, so that's that's that's a lot of effective Marketing in itself. It's probably not very costly but it's very very effective. Yeah, and the form the point which he came from is very much inspirational for all the marketers. I think absolutely Yeah, so till now we haven't got any requests from the listeners. So I think we can put a wrap on this conversation today open-top, and I'm sure we can connect more again sometime so we can continue on other topics as well. Thank you so much. I appreciate it was a pleasure sharing my experience and sharing my thoughts. Thank you so much. Irony Urban for being with us today at this open talk. Thank you so much. I'll see you again next time. Yeah, sure.