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What was the role in markets in those companies were shut down? What are you learning from them? Right see I think Market certainly is a big one. I think what I feel is that out of the three things Market team interaction Market is something that you just can't fight with at. All. Right, I think teams you can still work where you can fix them. You can hire more people you can chip and chop and things like that though. It's hard but still doable right attraction. Obviously your bill you can pay what you can do this, but Market is very very hard to fight. So I think If you find yourself in a in a market, which is let's say small, not that big or just really hard to penetrate or not growing that fast or super competitive or just timing-wise wrong, you know, so I think that is just very hard. I think I would say that is the number one reason. We're sort of things don't work out like I you know, if you talk to some other sort of top-tier barrier investors would be do you 30 40 years. Many of them will tell you that the number one predictor of success for investment has been timing so many opportunities which do not make sense today make sense five years from now many of them which made sense 10 years back. Don't make any more sense. Right? So I think getting the timing right of why sort of this makes sense to do today is I think a very difficult part from an investment perspective and it's often you often get it wrong I think as an investor But as an investor or an entrepreneur, how do you measure it? Because you cannot really test the waters until you have put your feet in it. Yeah, so you look for proxies, right? So you look for adjacent markets. Maybe there is evidence of that kind of success in maybe China or the U.S.right and hence so many investors like plays which have been proven out in China and U.S. because you can see a direct parallel you can match GDP you can say look if it worked here there it should work here so that D discs is or you look for adjacency. The market let's say I'm doing a clothing brand. There are three other brands that have worked then it should work. You know, I mean, there is President I can see what their metrics are if you're doing SAS, let's say right then you can sort of look at this as metrics for other companies see what worked for them and see their early signs of those kind of metrics is it deep Tech enough to have the right kind of customer profile are they being able to sell you know, things like that? So I think depending on the sector you look for market adjacencies and sort of some evidence of success and sort of build your own and build your own. Conviction. So are there any Market you are on the lookout for in 2019, 2020? Yeah, look, I think we are more bottom-up investors in that sense. There's some funds which build a more top-down thesis and say, okay, we will be looking for these things. I think we are more bottom up in that sense because we can so much T- flow that we are able to see patterns within that itself. So I think so we are so we work more that way but in the 10 Investments that we've done we've done four SAS four Consumer one Logistics and one fintech, you know, so I think I suspect those four will continue will probably I'm certain we'll do more SAS and certainly do more consumer and I'm certainly no more fintech, you know, probably more Logistics to so I think those are the top themes generally not just for us but I would say all text and trick VC's in India. So personally working with rajul since he was a lead investor in Babygogo Rajul had a lot of focus on retention metrics and product. Why is the reason for that Rajul ? Yeah, so I think the specific nature of Babygogo or all of these apps like SHEROES and sort of now, you know all the new app ShareChats of the word and sort of daily hands of the word and all that. Right? I think I believe that sort of the acquisition problem or how do you get how do you get more users to get into your app is kind of a solvable problem through money, right? So I think you raise VC funding you advertise your deal offers this and that, so I think that that It's kind of a more of a money problem over a period of time. When you look at it scale the more money you have you can acquire more users. Of course, you can hack it. You can do growth hacks and this and that but still, you know, it's predominantly a money problem. I feel you know, but I think the retention is really like a product problem like no amount of money can solve it. Right. So if you get a hundred people in and hundred people go out in 30 days 60 days, then there is no business, right? I mean you build a revolving door people come and people go. So how you're going to build a business, right? So unless you have customers right to come into your shop and buy some things take have some sort of loyalty. How do you build a customer base overview of time of any any substantial size then you just keep on sort of bleeding money and people will come and people go. So I think to me retention is the true test of a of an app or a product like that if you're looking at consumer apps and sort of I think the I think the metrics, you know, really tell the story of can you build an interesting business overview of time? What have been the difference between the early stage journeys of the companies which you invested in which scaled 5200 X and which couldn't scale that much. I think I think is that magical sort of thing, which is hard to determine of product Market fit, you know, so I think product Market fit is again sort of one of those non deterministic problems. I mean, it's like, you know, I wrote an article about sort of it's like, you know, how do I fall in love or like how to find happiness? It's like that. Right. So again, it's not a problem that you can solve through money and things like that. It's goes back to the timing thing. That is the market ready for this product today. Right and I think companies which find that stride which find that product Market fit. Where's or this easy adoption of the product that you're rolling out people, you know, find it people find it very valuable. They grow very quickly, you know, we're sort of you have to push the product a lot, you know, and sort of every acquiring every new user is a It is a big problem or a big effort this lot of friction. I think they find it hard, you know to scale more and more. So I think just the ease of customer adoption and how quickly it's flowing right? Whether it's Enterprise or whether it's consumer how quickly customers discovered you start trying you adopting you loving you. I think that's kind of a big determinated. I would say between the companies which sort of grow quickly versus you know where it's hard and you have to keep going so let's talk about one or two Journeys like Meesho, Shuttl what what were those things which you found in these Founders which you invested in and what were the early struggles in the product Market fit? So I think Shuttl let me speak about Shuffle. I've been sort of little bit more there in Delhi some sort of little bit more closely involved even though you know also with me show but Shuttl, for example, when we invested , I was the first check back in 2015 and I thought that the team was a very strong product Centric team, you know, so I think they I really felt that they understood how internet products the team was extra bong and this and that and I thought they were very strong product team, which is something I like in early stages of let's say if you're binning a product business of that nature and I felt like they do things in the proper way. They wouldn't hustle right? They won't take shortcuts ki, you know, isko aise kar dete hai wese kar dete hai They would sort of do it the proper way in a tech Centric way when they encounter problem. So that's what I liked about them at the time investing and is lot space right which is of the commute problem. So when they started they have actually pivoted little but they few things they've tried and some of them about some of their not work, right they've tried things like Intercity buses at some point of time which kind of worked but was not that exciting, you know, because I think intensity use case is not that frequent use case. You know, how many times would you go to Delhi Chandigarh or Delhi ,Jaipur you go once a year twice a year. So it lacks that frequency to build a sticky consumer product, right? They did short routes. So for example, they do did this last mile Metro Roots, which is where they started, you know from Metro station to office. And there was a huge amount of demand there like people just flock to you know, because you've seen Metro stations and people need less. If you go to HUDA Metro City then from there to office. There's a huge amount of people who want to go right? So if you put a bus there and say I'll take your everybody just jump in and all that, right? So so the solar fuels traction but the unit economics was really hard people want to pay for that five minute, right? How much will they pay? Right? They are on a Vikram, you know, they pay 10 bucks or whatever it is. They will pay you 15 right but it's very hard to make money in that use case and the prime be value Proposition is more sort of that you their at that time. Right? So I think through trials or overview of time they figured out that you know, they're ideal for more longer distance Roots like a Faridabad, Haryana, you know,Noida,Gurgaon right those kind of roots which are let's say 20 kilometer plus Roots more door-to-door, you know where so the pricing makes sense for them pricing makes sense of the consumer the comfort is valuable. So I think these are the sort of iterations they did in the product or the first year before the hit on sort. Or just the right product Market fit where they start seeing like everything came together right that they sort of there's enough demand. They can make money bus drivers like it, you know, there's money for them. So the ecosystem works for everyone and as they build scale there now, they're actually going back to some of the earlier models and how they can latch on other models on top of that the Metro one or the Intercity one, right which not the core model. I think the core tree has been built on this sort of slightly longer computer rights at but it time to sort of figure out that that's exactly what it was, you know took a good yet.