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Hello Sanjay. Good morning. How are you doing? Good morning. Happy New Year to do you serve it as same to you Sanjay and so today's topic is starting up and I understand you have a bad throat. But what I think you have a lovely voice, so I think you'll make a for that so yeah, tell me what you want to talk about since a know so it's interesting that this is the topic that you suggested starting up. It's actually a beginning of a new decade and I think even the topic of Adding up in the last decade has changed right from 2000 to 2010 when Karthik and I started loan to even today. So I think it's interesting topic. Yes. Yes. Yes and you're right. It's a new year new decade and it's a good idea to talk about how starting up is going to be in this ticket and how starting up was in last decade. So what do you think Sanjay the major difference you have observed in last 10 years the kind of startups you would have seen in 2010 era and you have been like an angel investor in computer in Moby yourself and Bloom has supported 500 company so far, I think so you have been at that at that. I would say the movement of you have seen the whole wave going through and you've seen the different kind of companies. Mm. Mm 15 and 20. So now and you meet so many entrepreneurs every day for the biggest difference you are seeing in what I would say on the pyramid. Dirty or the way people thinking about starting up right now. What used to see 10 years back sure, you know from a from a macro perspective if you think about the you know waves of innovation and starting up I think in India the early 2000s when you had Buzzy Raven of nation, so we started by Z in one sense. That was the first way very very early. The second was let's say when the likes of Flipkart and all started like late, you know 2000s and then of course, you know, the last couple of years has been the Third wave if you look in the nature of startups is very interesting to look at how the evolution has been if you look at food take as an example. I know when you know when the likes of us we started or even if you look at the ear of housing.com in that era I think in food Tech and let's say that the realistic space they were probably about 40 to 50 startups. I think then starting up was in a area sometimes which where there was a lot of funding where you know, there's a lot of growth see investors and Yes, people started companies because they're passionate about it. But also they wanted to make sure that was you know, quote unquote hot or there was funding available for that. You know, I'm heading to my bits Global meat in a couple of days and the kinds of problems. I think that Founders want to start up today are very different in the sense. They really care very deeply like I remember I was on a panel with Rajan another mans and you know, he just remark that, you know, there are hundred food apps, but why isn't anybody solving Delhi pollution. So today I actually finding that their the founders are of course, they want to create value. They want to create wealth. We have to pay shareholder wealth for everybody but the kinds of problems they thinking about starting up. I think they think a much more deeply I think we see that as I definitely see that as a as an interesting phenomena, right? You are absolutely right. And as you said last few years you have seen that the glamour of capital probably has gone away probably after. Keep guard success and like the VCS were coming to India left right center and people were getting funding a lot of lot of probably people started for the wrong reason or they they probably just took it easy and they got the capital lat not easily. I think now getting a capital is not very easy. So we seeing the set of entrepreneurs were coming up starting up. They are actually starting up when they're passionate about solving a particular problem. Not just because it is cool to start and you will you're going to get funding anyway, and also I've seen this is kind of of common in a lot of your portfolio companies in bloom, right? I somehow see these are difference in a bloom portfolio founder and and non Bloom portfolio founder. What is that that Freight you actually look at when you actually identify Founders we get excited about it. What are the top two three things you can think of of your head which actually differentiate a bloom company was known boom company sure. We have anything like that. Sure sure. Yeah and by the way so much you've been a rest. intense Kayla successful company in your past of the are so you've also seen their whole scale up in common flow, you know to answer your question when yeah, you know, we've done more than hundred companies for we definitely have a view on what a bloom Founders like or a blue Mia as we like to call him or her I think the two things one is that you know, we spend a lot of time with the founder and the founding teams on why they're doing what they're doing right in the sense that why did they start that whole journey the Evolution on what that pain point was, you know, you hear words like the long game right you really want found this for the long game. In fact, if you ask me and you asked got the call so that you know, we see is a constrained in one way because we've got these, you know ten and twelve your horizons, but actually if and you know, we have to produce exists because more Cash Coming Out means more cash going in but if you think about it, you would love to have parallel Capital by found a could really build for decades for 10 20 30 years if you look at you know, Some of the iconic companies that are built in the valley Facebook Google. Of course, they have exit windows with this longitude longevity, right? It's like Manchester United or Barcelona, like winning competitions over 40 years 50 years right over decades. So, you know, the long game is very important that the founders think about. The other part is I think capital is one element of many many different things. For example, like when we talk to Founders capital is assumed right, so we always asking them. Okay, once we've gotten from our side What is important to you besides Capital? Right? What are the different ways we can help you besides Capital? What is this other levers if you pull that is really going to help you meet your own gold, you know as it helped on the platform side on Business Development on fundraising on hiring I think hiding is the biggest reason why we're it's make-or-break red we found this sort of make or break starting from the co-founder I feel The the co-founder is exactly it is a spouse, right he or she and I think convincing that co-founder if you went to college together or to also leave their job the initial set of L1 L1 employees. I think is that the toughest part because once that happens then other people can inspired. It's not only one man or woman's version Vision, but you know, it's a collective Vision that we have to bind to so so I would say I would say for us I think it's never just about capital and I think it's about the long game. Right? Right, right. I think that's you have put it very nicely that you said that it's not about impulsive kind of decision to start because you know from your past experiences having worked with so many companies that's going to take time. So probably as a Founder you can only fail in one year, but you probably rarely can succeed in one year so And you if you are preparing yourself for 10 years. So the First Advantage is that you're going to see the wave ups and downs and you're going to survive through and second is that you can actually have a great chance of building a truly great company. So basically we have some comments also coming up people are saying how to plan for longer-term. So basically what I understand is that when when you start up right, you don't know how much time is going to take and but you just passionate about solving a problem. But how do you actually plan for the longer term beat financially beat considering the risk? Sometimes you're 25 and probably going to get married in few. Years. So how do you actually plan for longer term when you start as a Founder here? So I think you know, I think the best Founders and you know, some of it I mean, you know in they need Founders you're high, you know High amongst that pool. I think you've got to do founders have to bow do top-down and bottom-up planning, right? So I think to really get you know, I'll give an example. I think there was an interview with Jim Breuer right who had backed Mark Zuckerberg and exhale away, sir. This Beer Capital and he was asked once that did you think that Mark would build a hundred billion dollar company and he said not even even I didn't know even Mark deadly I mean Martin so but but those are the kinds of entrepreneurs you want a backhoe doing it for the passion and of course say that they want to build a trillion dollar company, but the top down is really, you know, you have to excite yourself your co-founders and early investors about the vision, but then you were to break it into bite-size chunks. So nobody is going to give you Capital like you will come to Boom say listen, I'm going to build a 20 year company. Okay, that's great. But if you have bite-sized the Milestones, you know every 18 months every year that show a step up function right that basically say, okay, you know the next one or two years you have the Milestones. This is how we going to it's like a journey, right? So is think of I mean, let's use the word pilgrimage and you're going to get to that goal. You going to the going to you starting a discount right from discomfort. You've got to get to that right if you run out of oxygen which is capital you're out so I think Think a Founder who's laid out that Journey on the way to sort of like Mount Everest use an analogy but has a very clear understanding and also understands the gaps and says, you know after I finish from base camp to that from that b2c. I know that we may have to maybe recruiter US President of Sales or a head of marketing because I don't have that skill. So I think self-awareness of the strengths and the gaps of the team is very important and the people who can open up right completely agree. I also feel that being intellectually honest. Is one of the most important skill as a Founder you should have where you are. You are honest to yourself and you are just not about honest in terms of Ethics, but in terms of understanding your strengths and weaknesses, and as you said that you don't know what it's going to take for 10 years, but if you are preparing yourself every Milestone and you are setting up resetting up and trying to set reset your expectations with your founders with our investors with everybody in the team and try to prepare for the next Milestone. I think you're right. Right, you should have probably at least commit yourself for 10 years as you said and and then you really do not cannot have a plan for next 10 years, but you should have that at least commitment for to take it Forward otherwise things happen like sometimes I see people say that they are they going to get married and how will they do start up and all that. I think they're starting up is a way of life. Right? In fact when I got married in in 2011, and we were sitting with tiger in u.s. One of the conference and they were saying that After you got married the company has been growing very rapidly, right so though. It's like chicken-egg problem. Probably I got married when I could see that we are on the path to grow very fast, but I think that really you cannot say that I'm going to do a lot of sacrifices to make this data happen. I think you have to understand that when you starting up it's going to be part of a life and everybody starting up. In fact as a family as everybody is part of the startup not just you as a Founder area. Yeah, you know, that's a very choose me. So it's a very interesting. Any point, I will bring up I'll bring up a related point which is very true in 2020. Just the whole aspect of you know health and well-being and mental health and the reason it's important for a founder and starting up is there is no other industry or let's say a place where you can have let's say you on an afternoon. You can have a tremendous high at 2 p.m. And then a tremendous low at 4 p.m. Right? Let's say you lose a deal or let's say a time she falls through that slow, but you hire this, you know person from from college who lie The flip car to somebody to come and join you and that that internal security that you have to have is very very important because because to your point when you said giving up sacrifices along game, you have to be very secure from the inside because I think outside validation like raising money, you know, winning a customer those are just points of validation, but the security has to be there regardless of that because that you can't control it may come in six months. It may come today. And and also I think the reason you think about the single founder The now usually most companies associated with let's say sometimes one founder to Founders, which is fine. But an understanding even between the founders has to be very strong about who does what role will again come back to football, right? You can't have you know using my favorite team Barcelona. It's not who the team is but with position would position they play right? You have three star players playing the same position that it's a disaster because they're all fighting for the same Bowl you actually sometimes scenes amusing but silly. Stations when you see this when they take the frequently they actually fight for it, right? They say the best place all want to take that kicked have dealt understanding is not there. Yeah, right and then invariably miss it. So I think the fortitude and the resilience, you know words like this and again coming back to the room founder you you know, and you are also one I think resilience fortitude the long game in in in spite of well-funded competition has to be there because otherwise it's very easy to give up. The minute somebody else raises a big round. You can say okay, you know, we're done. Yeah, I think that that has to be there as true great Sanjay. I think that there's so much to talk to you about and I enjoy all of our actions we had in past and including this one. I think we can we can talk for our and not then we the Berto but let's keep some of those things for the subsequent open talks. It was great talking to you and we saw a lot of interesting comments. Also somebody's talking about not just your thoughts and Jay your profile pic is also amazing. I think you've got some fans here. So thanks a lot everyone for listening us and universe in and thank you. Thank you for joining us on open talk. Thank you so much.