You think startups have enough space in terms of Bank not catching with them faster. If you ask me personally, I think that that is my biggest concern area. My biggest concern area right now is the cost of money is extremely high through the hole in BFC pipe. And that makes it very very difficult for fintech to come up with a competitive credit product from a pricing point of view. So when there is demand If your product is not priced appropriately somebody else will get smarter and start fulfilling the demand what we have seen over the last 18 months time is there are Pockets where fintechs and gone ahead and opened up the opportunity confirm that there is demand out there and you know what the banks are actually going in now fulfilling the demand I think from a fintechs point of view. There is there is a need not just to look at credit from a credit standpoint but fintechs to also figure out that to drive. It what is my liabilities answer? So I do believe that most of the fintech credit companies cannot just think about their credit book, but they also need to think about their liabilities side. And what are the other areas where you as an investor when you put your angel investor hard on you become interested in so I'm a big believer of the transaction. So I love to see the transaction between two entities so businesses, which are are created on the backs of a transaction and the transaction could be simple transaction, right? So I invested in a company called cut a book now in cata book what I was getting to see was somebody noting down the transaction doesn't mean that they were actually enabling the transaction but they were confirming a transaction and I felt that that's an opportunity to go after so anything which is around a transaction is what I love to play. I invest into a company called sine Z sine Z does eky see the transaction is Often account opening and that's what they are enabling through the E KY C and some fraud checks that they do based on AI based on the AI capabilities that they are built within the organization and I felt that was a really good opportunity to invest into so I'm a big believer of the transaction and being around the transaction. If you're around the transaction, there is a higher probability that the business will keep a larger portion of the revenue and how many companies still is now you have And in way too many I keep complaining nowadays that number of Founders and the quality of Founders that I'm getting to meet. I'm going to go broke doing this. I'm meeting some amazing Founders virtually every day continue to back them continue to invest with them. I think I must be now close to about 20 Investments, which I would have done. I don't do small investment. So I don't lie right file like checks and 10 like check. I don't like doing those kind of levels. I Really like to write checks, which are hundred K USD and plus so I'm taking bigger bites from typical angel investor standpoint, but that's because I'm just getting to meet some ridiculously good Founders on an everyday basis and let's see how many Founders would be pitching to you in a month's time today. You know, that's not a good way to look at it. Right? I actually haven't given it a thought with says how many pitch to me or whatever I I I would just want to say that I'm getting to see fantastic Founders. I actually don't really measure how many people are pitching to me. Of course in that what it means is I miss some good opportunities. I don't treat Angel Investing as a primary source of what I do. I treat in jail investment as something which just keeps me excited and allows me to get to meet some fantastic Founders so they could be days months. Where I don't really meet any new founder out there and that's purely because I've got something else as my priority right now. As I said Angel investment is not necessarily a source of you know, multiplying money. It's like something which I love doing because of the kind of Founders. I'm getting to meet and also because you have been you know, the birth of citrus was that you invested in Cheatin and we can all see ya know. I wouldn't say I invested into GT I think there's a wrong way to put it right I would I would say that we invested into ourselves because you know, I think it is the firm belief that we had that we wanted to do something on the on the fintech payment side. It wasn't a classic sense of you know, let us invest and let's make some money out of it. It was more like there is an opportunity to build a payments platform. Let's do it. And when you are NSA building currently, you know to turn profitable pu profitable into yes. Yeah, that's Marvelous Milestone. Yeah, thank you. So what's next for you in your journey, you know, that's a that's an interesting one and I am I'm at that stage where you know, I do want to really think very hard about what comes next what happens next out there, right? I do I do believe that the entire fintech space in India has not started. I think the war will actually start in another four or five years time today. What we are doing is like pee. Operation for the for the big war out there. I am Keen to look at what happens in the offline space. I'm Keen to understand what happens on the credit space and get to that sooner rather than later. I'm also at a stage where you know, I I built First Data from my home and you know First Data was employee number one when I left you a 1700 people. I treated it as a true entrepreneurship and I built it up as a start-up same thing with Data, I was employee number one internet data. We had massive success with teradata. We did the same with Citrus pay. I also do feel that there is a need to just take some time out to Think Through what you feel excited about doing next. Really? I think that is very important for me and the problems that you mentioned these keep going on your head. Yeah, because you know fintech is the space where I feel most comfortable in you know, unlike others who have just tried to jump into the fintech space. That's fintech is all what I have done through my life. So I it's it does it's not that it comes very hard to me or is not natural to me. My my first love has always been into payments digital payments and fintech. I just can't see myself tomorrow going and setting up an e-commerce company or a, you know, real estate Hotel company. I just cannot see myself doing it. I all my mind. Has always been into fintech. I think I can think very deeply in the fintechs space and that's what I would love to do going forward to for the listeners who want to do fintech because it's hot and sexy they are right. Yeah, what would you advise you? Because they haven't had the experience the problems firsthand. Yeah, right what what kind of depth or research they need to do. You know, it's a very interesting question and I keep telling this to all my team all the time both in Citrus and And with pay you even with First Data, I kept telling my team one simple thing which is spend time in understanding the complexities of the fintech space. And if you can do that, then you are golden because you know, what could happen is if you want to live and do your career only in the fintech area, if you understand fintech in the nitty-gritties of fintech, you will always succeed similarly. If you want to do a start-up you will always win. I do believe fintech is extremely complex the The inner workings and the inner nitty-gritties are extremely difficult for somebody to understand it. I do tell everybody that take time to understand digital payments consumer Behavior checkouts. Why does why does money move in a certain fashion? If you're able to solve the code at that base level you'll be able to build a very strong fintech play. As I said one of my latest mantras is that don't think credit about Credit, but think about credit and figure out how you're going to get your liability is right and only then you're going to build a fantastic credit business. Not many people think in that way many people just think about oh credit is about lending and collections. Yes, it is about lending and collection but it also is about cost of money and hence liabilities to think about it as a holistic problem. Don't just think at one end of it. So I would advise anybody saying that don't take fintech lightly. It's a very complex area. Try and understanding understand it at a nother level before you jump in it as a start-up founder. So at Citrus since you have so much years of experience and relationship with bugs. I would say it was not enough for you to sell to Banks and never right because as I told you I was I was always, you know in the fintech space both with NCR and with First Data so that space understanding was very very clear. I remember when I started off with citrus We were doing about hundred crows a month. And when we exited we were almost at about 1,200 1,300 grows a month. Similarly. When I took over as the CEO of puv were losing about 24 25 crores on a monthly basis as a combined entity and it took us like less than two years to convert that into a profitable entity only because we knew where the Prophet pools were only when we knew where the revenues could be in hands only because we knew how Consumers and businesses can grow their you know personal income at the same time ready to share it with some of the payment company. So yes, I would say that because of my prior journey fintech and abilities to find profit pools and fintech has been something which I find easier to do and what would your you know advice to Founders people want to sell to Banks because banks are not open to hear any new Solutions. Yeah, how do they get entry into the band's it's not like the traditional B2B sales are either moving the problems with the banks face. Yeah, you know, I've got many many friends in Banks and financial institutions have fantastic regards for them and I've got great respect for banking professionals, right? But I also very well understand the constraints under which way they work and their constraints are regulatory. Their constraints are the bureaucracy within some of the banks and their constraints are also around decision-making when it comes to fintechs and how they partner with banks and financial institutions. They need to know the constraints in which banks operate and how they managed to grow that within that same constraint if you can respect that and if you can find ways in which you can partner in those circumstances, you will always be golden so there will be situations. Situations where you'll want to partner with banks and financial institutions. There will be situations where you want to take them head-on, but for that you first need to understand what they go through in their daily lives only then you will be successful.