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Hello. Hey Syd, can you hear me? Hello. Yeah. I said I can hear you. Hello. I can hear you. Hi. Good morning Palace. Good morning. How are you doing doing good. How are you? Very good. Thank you for so much for joining in now. Sure. Thank you. Great. So published we have been discussing about Pathfinders before this call. Yes, and I thought it would be very interesting for our listeners also to More about Pathfinders and how do you help people tap opportunities outside the box. That's what I read. That's right. That's right. That's right. Okay, so you want me to go like that? All right. So so thanks Sid for this hosting this chat show and and dear listeners. So, my name is Paul Louis Agarwal and the founder and managing partner of Pathfinders knowledge advisory we are Very interesting firm in one sense. What we really do is we provide some bespoke Learning and Development and employee engagement experiences to corporates. But what we do it is in very interesting formats. What we believe is that, you know, frankly content is no more King it is it is more freely available easily available. Thanks. Thanks to Google actually so, you know, you put a reasonably intelligent human being in front of a computer give him or her Google access give him or her a subject and four hours and after four hours, you will get a reasonably good content. So, you know while content has to be good and robust. It is not the differentiator. The differentiators really is how do you make that content sticky? How do you make the content last longer? How do you make it content? Sustainable in the minds of the audience. And and what we at Pathfinders do is really bring that live through interesting formats. We have both Tech and non-tech formats on the tech side. We use things like artificial intelligence based assessments, which can be used for, you know, Mass recruitment. It can be used for free training needs assessments. It can be used for training delivery modules. It can be used for power supply want Studio, right so quickly to recap whatever we discussed in last two minutes. Yeah, you said that there was a time where we did not have content. But today we have a Content overload. We have been done right available. Very ready. Yep writing content is not a big deal, but how we utilize that content and how we make sure that it has an impact it creates an effect and that's right find it useful and obviously create that stickiness so that people come back absolutely what you're trying to do. Yeah, and you spoke about Assessments in training for are you doing training and Assessment both or are you doing only assessment? So how is it now? So we do both actually and and for both we have some very as I said, you know our use fee is really interesting formats and and we both we do both assessments and training and interesting formats. So for example, let's take the case of Assessments. We use artificial intelligence, you know, not the usual run-of-the-mill assessment modules that you know that are there in the market on the training front. For example, we use as I said take an Formats on the non-tech formats just to give you some pointers. We use theater. We use dance views music views Indian. Mythology views movies views comedy view simulation games, you know, so while while these formats give a interesting layer of interesting formats, we also ensure that the content is is extremely robust because you know, you know while I said that Intent is not the differentiator. It's easily available that is actually the core product. But how we deliver it is as important. That's that's the point. I wanted to sort of drive, you know, and and that actually makes the content sticky you could for example talk about an organization's values in a classroom in a PPT format. But what if you do it, let's say using theater or dance it lasts longer in the minds of the people, you know. So that's that's the kind of approach that we take. So you're using a unique approach in delivering the content. Absolutely - all right. So you use drama you use theater. Make sure those points come out of those ppts and become more glamorous and interesting. Yeah, I would say interesting not not necessarily glamorous. But but surely interesting, you know, I want to make a difference between fun and frivolous, you know, our our delivery formats are fun. You know all the forms that I talked about whether it's theater dance music Indian mythology comedy movies simulation games. They're all fun formats. So these are experiential in nature. Basically, you make people participated actively get into it. That's right, but they are not frivolous. We do not talk frivolous stuff. We talked some really serious stuff that is important to the company's strategy or business and but we do it in a fun way instead. You know in a boring way, that's that's a difference. Okay. So who are your customers? I'll do you approach only organizations or people can walk in and get themselves trained. How is it? Yeah. So so we ours is a B2B model we offer as of now only in house and customized Solutions on that front. Of course, we have three, you know broad audience one is the corporates and in the corporate. So, you know their teams that Executives and so on there is there are two other segments that we continuously talk to one is the one one segment is a startups and here I am talking about startups which are slightly mature in the journey who have you know, seen some traction from the early days and so on and and they're now looking to scale up. So that's one segment. The other segments that we continuously talk to is is the institutions and particular. Aggressive ones, of course in I'm talking about educational institutions. So so that's these are the three broad segments that we really talk to and you know in one sense if you talk about it commercially, of course, you know, the money is in the carpets, but we currently work with startups in institutions in one sense to give back to society as well and at the same time learn from them. Educational institutions. Is it for students or are you focusing on the academic and non-academic the stops? So it's basically students and some executed programs that are run by educational institutions that that again in one sense goes back to carpets. Mmm-hmm. Okay. So so what is the learning? I mean what do people gain Out of This Woman's against the corporate or startup signs of for a program. So what can they expect as an outcome as Learning outcomes. Yeah, so, you know on our on our portfolio of people that we have we have, you know, I will call out a couple of things one is we have very varied, you know and accomplished set of people on our on our portfolio. They are not the typical lnd professionals. They are they have they have, you know done business. They have headed businesses for Decades and more or two decades in most cases. They had some real life experiences themselves. I mean, for example, we have army veterans on our on our portfolio. We have people who have written books authors on a portfolio. We have people who are who have written Bollywood movies, for example on a portfolio. We have X Mackenzie people. We have people from IIT zaimes. We have entrepreneurs. So these people these kind of people actually drink there. Are you know they have lived life both, you know a very deeply both professionally and personally and and they bring all that experiences to the table. So when they when such people deliver our programs with our clients, the client can really expect to see real outcomes out of this. It is not it is not learning development for the sake of Learning and Development. It is not employing a judgment for the sake of Employee Engagement, but They can actually look forward to real outcomes. And then we also have a mechanism in which we actually hand hold the participants or teams after the intervention is over, of course depending on our arrangements with the company in terms of we actually review their personal commitments that they have made at the intervention in one sense. So so this is this is what really, you know. Our clients can really do forward to I mean real outcomes from interventions which are delivered in extremely interesting formats. Yeah. So, okay the I think you know the actual intervention may maybe half day to two days. But as I said, we have a mechanism through which we actually review the outcomes. On the implementation of those commitments, you know, what kind of challenges that people might be having to implement some of the commitments that they have made at the intervention what kind of support do they need but from the organization so we have a mechanism to do that. So the moment we get into that format the engagement is really wrong long-term. And while I said that the actual intervention may be about half day to two days, you know, most companies most of our clients actually run a series of such. Dimensions so so, you know our our our repeat businesses is pretty high. So most of our engagements are actually on based on long-term relationships with our clients and and and therefore the eloquent really lasts for a long time while the micro level engagement might actually be a short one. Okay, put the batteries will keep changing your thing the kind of people who sit for your engagement could change that's right with the corporate thing is meant to the long term. Absolutely and even even the batch that has gone through intervention, you know hours we have a system as I said through which we keep in touch with them, you know on a review call monthly review call kind of a format where we drive the implementation of the commitments made of the intervention. So so that's that's how it is. Any specific example, you would like to quote corporate where you really made a difference in the recent past? Yeah. Sure. You know, I'm okay. So this is a public platform. So I'm not really okay. Yeah, that's right. So we really did. Okay. Let me let me call out to or two examples that we recently did one with one was with God. Life insurance. So they have a for their agency mid to senior professionals. They have a two-year Learning Journey, which is actually divided into seven steps. And so Step One is let's say managing myself step two is managing others that 3 is managing business and so on we came in at the seventh step of empowering others and So, you know, I'm a manager or a leader can actually grow only when he or she is able to empower others and delegate a lot of work that he or she has to do himself ourselves and and and we actually focused on the theme of empowerment. We are running a series of workshops with product life insurance purely on the subject of empowerment using a series of simulation games and cartoons, for example End and the feedback has been amazing, you know, so so we are so that's one example, of course, we have a mechanism where we are reviewing the implementation of those commitments by the audience in the workshop. That's one example. Another example is where you know, there's a company called Sousa s u SE it's a it's a German multinational software company, which is really looking to grow from about 400 billion dollars. To a billion dollars in the next three years and while of course there are business levers to pull and push to get there. There is a lot of mindset change that is also required to get there and envy did a great workshop with them in terms of their transforming their mindsets. They're there they colleagues mindsets using a very interesting format. And and so this is these are just two real very Examples that we are, you know, I can talk about of course. I'm in touch with several other clients where we are seeing a lot of traction in terms of continued engagement. Hello. Yeah, I can hear you. Okay. So what was most training programs focus on making people think outside the box. That's right. But most of your description talks about by tapping opportunities outside the box. That's right. So, how do you really think she'll do what do you mean when you say that thing about computers the sure, you know, I think I would also take this to a larger discussion in terms of General Life and business, you know when anyone operates Inside the box. It's frankly. It is very crowded. You know anything Inside the Box is always will be crowded particularly in a country like India, you you pick any business to work on in India and you may think that it is extremely Niche but and it however if you are operating Inside the Box, you will always find a huge crowd already operating there like work on a little bit. That's right. Right. Yeah, so so that's one now. Let's go outside the box. If you go too far outside the box, you know one is that it has not been tested that idea may not have been tested. The second is it may be well ahead of its time and and therefore the chances of of failure are very high. So, you know, frankly I always would Why is to operate just outside the box not inside the box and not too far outside the box now, of course that is contextual and you know, you need to sort of figure out or greater for yourself. But let's just the case. Let's take the case of you know, let me let me draw out another interesting concept from history, you know during the Renaissance period in Italy there was a very wealthy family called the Medici family any DIA. I see I Medici family. Now this family encouraged Artisans. They encouraged Craftsman the encouraged creative people to sort of work together to create new stuff and and because they were operating at the boundaries of different instructor, you know different fields. They created some really interesting stuff at that point in time. And that's how Renaissance period actually grew and the European. Culture and economic really grew at that point in time. And this is I'm talking about 400 years back. This is true even today and this is actually come to known as the Medici effect. So if one is able to operate at the interface of fields, and and and this is just outside the box by mind you, you know one has a higher chance of success because one one is not in the crowded space second one is not proof. Far out playing with things that has not been tested or well ahead of its time for example in in the business at iron in path finders. I have found a very interesting interface between learning development and strategy and employee engagement and I married with different Arts like as I said artificial intelligence virtual reality theater dance music movies comedy games. So so that's how it is, you know in one sense. We really operate at at the interface of different fields. And and this is really just outside the box. So when I when I said tapping opportunities outside the box, this is what really I meant by tapping option is just outside the box not inside the Box not too far away. So mainly we are looking at incremental Innovation rather than drastically trying to do something new where the chance of failure could be high. Yes, you can. Yes, I okay. Let me you can put it that way. Of course, if you're if you're begging her Deep Pockets, and you should do try to do you know drastic innovation of the likes of el on Mars, but but but most of us are not alone masks. So so I think a better way for us to really Drive value in this world is to operate just outside the box and not too far away and not not inside surely right building. So Papa has this aha moment come during the course of your journey in your corporate career. And when did it come to be Enlighten us sure. You know, I actually came across this concept of aha moment in a book by mr. Are gopalakrishnan where he's written a book called, you know, when the penny drops and he talks about the AHA moments over there and I found the concept very interesting when I read that book. But as I went along in my own life, I actually realized that aha moment is actually not a moment and it is it should not be a moment. You know, it should you should let it Brew for a while. You should let those aha moments that you get Brew for a while inside you and and and and the same thing is happening with me, you know as I went about my career on and I'm like, I have a 20 year old carrier now and if I go back 15 years I can actually see the you know, I can actually sort of think about the seeds of my current, you know, whatever I'm doing right now the seeds of these being sown almost 15 years back and and and as I went about my career, of course opportunities came my way and you know, so whatever I am I am I did in my I passed as is contributing to what I'm doing right now and and and whatever I'm doing right now. I'm sure will contribute to my work in the future. So so I very strongly believe that nothing ever goes waste whatever you're doing at any point in time you are going to actually see the benefit of that as Steve Jobs say that, you know, the dots will connect in future. You never know when and where but they will connect. Yeah, and so that's that's one thing. The thing is the concept of aha moment itself, you know, as I said, you should let these aha moments Brew inside you for a while and you know, it is exactly the same concept of of you know, operating just outside the box because if you start acting on aha moments the moment they come, you know, you are going to be very Mercurial you're going to be very impulsive. You may not have done enough research on that. That and you may actually jump on that aha moment and and and there is a higher chance of filling if you let this aha moment brew and and let it come to you again and again, and and in the meantime while your mind is processing this aha moments as it Brews inside, you you are of course going to do some research around it. You're going to speak to people you are going to become more robust. In terms of you know, in terms of how to sort of execute it and then when you are sort of ready in all respects, and of course again I said, this is contextually to each portion you need to take the jump now, as I said in the in the tapping the option is outside the box concept again, you shouldn't let this aha moment Brew too long because because in the passion will die. You know, so just like the Box concept, you know, you have to be just right just outside the box not too far away not inside similarly in the AHA moments. You should not immediately act on every aha moment that you get at the same time. You should not let the AHA moments Brew for too long. So there is our violence that you need to dry for yourself and and there is no really right or wrong answer to this, but but but conceptually you need to just Weight of this that you should you should let the armaments Brew for a while before you actually act on them. I think there are two interesting management terms used for this one is one extreme is called paralysis by analysis for being posed by Instinct. That's right. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. So I think each person or each you know, professional should really find his/her own golden means and there is a golden mean the the important thing to understand is that there is a golden mean So just thinking your previous point forward progress about the having extensive experience. You have studied in one of the best institutions. We have been living by am senior level position code level position and I think in your most recent position good Pro vice-chancellor of not someone geocities, that's right. And but today we see a lot of young kids this parking lot of college starting up. There are some cells and incubators in college itself. Yep, you get on the phone. Late from college you have day one. Yeah. So do you think work experience will not add value on the chances of success are much higher when you have both experienced and mature economies, right? Sure. Sure. Sure sure, you know there is actually research now to to say that, you know entrepreneurs in their 40s have a higher chance of success. But of course there are stories of all types older older and openers than 40 is for example, Ray Kroc actually started when he was 56 and he was cancer-ridden at the same time. There are much younger entrepreneurs who have started in Milan College in school itself. So so there are stories and examples of all kinds but but on a macro level research has proven that if you are in your Parties as an entrepreneur you have a higher chance of success and I think there are reasons for this one is you know, when you're in your 40s you have about let's say two decades of experience under your belt and and that experience is is actually meaning a lot. It has it has taught you to handle success. It is taught you to handle failures and and it has given you a lot of learnings because of that, you know, and I think that's an Important thing to have while starting out. That's one secondly after two decades of working. Most people would have made reasonable money, you know at a personal finance level and and that is one very important question must one must have while starting out it allows you to you know, operate outside the box as I said in one sense take risks and so on. That's a second thing that you know people in their 40s typically will have the third thing that people in there, you know mid-career will have is a personal stability. So their personal lives by then would have sorted out either way, you know, they would be you know, whatever their personal situation is. They would be comfortable in that whether it's Good or bad or whatever it is. But but that would have settled down either their parents or their family immediate family or their kids, you know, so those things would have settled down so that gives a lot of mental peace to sort of work on things at a professional level. The fourth thing is the network that one develops while working for almost two decades and that is an extremely important thing to to use one as an entrepreneur. Now all these four things will not be available to a youngster who is starting out in his or her 20s or you know late teens experience money personal stability and network having said that people do start out in their late teens and early 20s and and some of them do make it a success hats off to them. But I think I think you know, there is research and there is Very strong reasons to to to get into entrepreneurship a little later in life rather than extremely early in carriers. So what do you advise tour listeners? Maybe there are people who are just starting off the college if they will want to really do it without looking for a few years. What are the words of caution that you want them to take? I think the word I think really there is see frankly. There is no substitute to what you would get after two decades of Working and then starting out, right? You can't mean that cannot really be replaced by anything else. You cannot have the experience of a for two decades old experienced person without having without going through it. Right? I think I think one one really strong reason for one to start out early is if if one has a great idea and you have one has pilot tested it To some extent and and there is a there is a you know visibly a strong Market to sort of do so and so I think that's that's one real strong reason. The other strong reason could be that attack at a personal level, you know, the the financials are comfortable either from a family point of view or or you have got let's say Manna From Heaven from some investors or or from Opener ship cell. So if that is the case then then go ahead and start out. So yeah, so these are the two things that so if you can get you know these things in your in your bucket experience money per so stability in network at an early age. So be it I mean, why wait for 20 years, so there's a question here. I think mr. Krishnan. Mr. Smith. Could you please share to his what? Is the one word you need experience to tap outside the mediocrity? Outside okay is so that's so out some. Okay. First of all, my name is not Krishna it is it is powerless. My full name is Pavel Krishna Grewal, but you can call me powers. I think the question is can you share to us? What is the one word in our experience to tap? I think it is clearly Network, you know your your professional and your personal Network. This is Clearly the most important thing in my own business for example, and thanks to my experience. And so I use my Alumni network from from both IIT. And I am I use my professional network from having worked in the corporate world for more than 18 years. I also use my network in the Academia having worked with you know, Nazi mangy at a senior level. And of course now as an entrepreneur I use You know very, you know, a lot of references to to really get my work so it's all about networking. And while I talk about networking the important point is to really to look at Deep networking rather than you know shallow or frivolous networking. So so so this is really I mean for example said you and me got connected on a social network and and we have spoken several times. And we are now having this you're hosting my the chat show, right? So this is really deep. This is a clear example of deep networking. How how how deep networking can you know really make things happen and add value to this world to and to yourself. So this is this is one word that I would really leave. You know, this person with is about using your network. Because before we close would you like to throw some light on opportunities in Pathfinders? Probably commence want to work with you sometimes sure so, you know, frankly given the kind of work that we do which is just outside the box seat and we operate the interface of different fields, like learning development Employee Engagement and strategy and one side and interesting formats, like artificial intelligence virtual reality Theta dance music Indian mythology movies. Many games on the other side. We are always looking for very interesting people and partners. So, you know, I in fact I spent about and I'm not joking I spend about half my time looking for or interacting with such people and partners because that's the core of my business and and if anyone of you of the listeners that are there on the on the call right now, Now you feel that you are doing something interesting just outside the box. Please get in touch with me and I will be very very happy to engage, you know and take things forward from there. So that's that's clearly one opportunity that that we look at the other of course is you know, as we grow as we as we scale up we will look at three kinds of skills in our in our company one is around Business Development. Second is around partnership development and third is around content development. But that's a little later frankly right now. I'm just looking for very interesting and you know people who are people in partners are doing very interesting stuff in their own work where I can actually engage with so a Powers I think of a great conversation and I'm sure our listeners were found it very useful knowing about how to tap opportunities not very far from the box, but just outside the box and also got to know a lot about about Pathfinders language unique way of deliveries in programs and making sure Corporation species benefit from it true. Yeah, so great job and listeners can contact Powers online on LinkedIn Vivid acrylic base books and we can also apply on that in some website power to be like to mention here. Yeah. So I think right now I think the just to connect with me. I think the best way to do it is through as said you said LinkedIn and Facebook. I think these are great great options and from there, of course we get into more deeper networking. As I as we talked about. Thank you so much for your time and money. Sure. Thank you very much. And thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Everybody who's on the call? And thank you said for a great host for being a great host and look forward to making many more connects, you know going forward. Thank you. Sure. Thank you. Thanks a lot. Bye.