When you hear some examples from the Citrus beginning, how did you when you first built out that solution you partnered with e-comm at one end the right and at the bank said, what was the first few sales like, you know, it's a I'll give you a macro answer then I'll give you a micro answers right Banks and financial institutions extremely comfortable in holding money what banks are banks and financial institutions and not comfortable is in in transacting money. So when it comes to transacting money, they are saying wait money is going out of my bank. Why am I helping? He's acting money. So generally Banks and financial institutions have not invested enough in building the best transaction capabilities on the front end hence, except for one or two Banks. You don't see many banks which are into Merchant acquiring services or payment Gateway Services, even on UPI. You would have seen other parties which have become extremely successful. However, when it came to wallets where fintechs were trying to attack the deposit base of the bank's they fought it very hard. He wanted to create barriers. They all came together to break create a small smart product like UPI, which allows deposits to remain with banks. So when you are trying to partner with banks, if you want to try and partner with them where you allow them to keep the deposit for themselves. It will work. OK minute. You want to try and Target the deposit base or their credit base you have to compete with them. So you have to know how you need to navigate. The gate the banking world to make a successful fintech coming back to your citrus pay Journey. How did you and G10 divided the responsibilities among yourselves, you know in a start-up you never really end up dividing anything at all. I would I would just I know I keep saying this right find a co-founder who's ready to work hard on a day when you want to not go to officer. So I we never really looked at it in terms of dividing any Any roles that's why we both called ourselves as MD's in in Citrus because we couldn't really figure it out with says oh you only do product and I only do sales. We never really looked at it that way we look we took up interesting products on our own we build sales capabilities on the same there were situations where I have actually just build the scaling for that product while G10 was building out the product on the Other side and vice versa so never really split it as such just work together to build whatever which was important for citrus. The number one reasons. Why start of field is co-founder issues. Yeah II is not able to raise funds right you're experiencing working with GTA never I think five to ten years younger than you they are and you are not saying hey, I'm old one. I will take the CEO hat. Yeah, what would have been you know your thoughts during that Journey that what do Founders need to mash wavelengths on or what compromises they do need to do. So, I think I think the number one Golden Rule for a co-founders and four co-founders to work together is putting the company first the minute you find a co-founder who's not putting the company first and is actually putting himself or herself first before the company. I think then we have a serious problem. That's one second is you have to actually be A loyal to the investors who have invested in your company again. If if there is a co-founder who's not on the same page, then you're actually really going to struggle third what you commit to the employees is extremely important. And if the two co-founders are not on the same page on that topic, you're never going to have a great culture and you're never going to build something which is going to be highly successful. So I would advise anybody is that These three four areas. You should test it before you actually get into becoming co-founders with anybody else. And how has your relationship is equal. You mentioned that you and behavior previously friend has evolved in terms of you know, you can getting deals to them they getting back, you know companies to you advice or you know, it's a it's very very friendly and very, you know, very casual relationship. You know, it's a relationship which we feel extremely comfortable about there. Are many programs on which Sequoia would invite me to give my thoughts at the same time when we were fundraising in Citrus we knew for sure. We're never going to run out of money because we find that as long as we were building something which is good and which was continued to grow Sequoia will always back us feel the same even today, right? You always feel similar today saying that you have friends out there who are going to back you and it's not just Sequoia ride. You got to remember you also had be next on our honor. Cap table be next saracen, you know runs a very very interesting interesting VC firm and they have had very similar relationship with us great friends during the Citrus Journey. But even after the Citrus Journey just a fantastic fantastic relationship, you know, they will continue to call us for all their events. There's an event happening in Tokyo in November and be next wants us to be there to just continue to share our experience. In fact, there are some investors who we made friendship through the Citrus Journey but never really had funding from them and you know, and those have continued to remain as real thick supporters Bloom is one of them Matrix obviously is one of them on Nexus is another one Ascent Capital was actually an investor who have been continued to be really good friends with us lightbox light speed. Are fantastic names but they are really really good friends. Although they never invested for various reasons during the Citrus Journey. But what we did and they did we remain absolutely transparent. This is who we are. This is what we built. This is what we can add value if there's something that we can help you outside more than happy to do that for you. And you know, you never know when that is all going to come back to help you on another day. It is real. We important to be loyal and be respectful to the ecosystem. So why I asked this is when shit hits the fan. Yeah in your company. How do you deal with that founder investor relationship? I don't know. I never went through it being very honest with the right. I think maybe I stumbled upon the right one by being honest at the end of the day if you are honest, no investor is going to be mean with you now mind you I have been on the good side. Things and ends I would say I'm lucky but again goes back to the Simple Theory, right? If you are all in the game, if we are one team what everybody requires his honesty, right? The coach wants honesty. The captain wants honesty the team members want honesty from the captain and the coach. If you are honest in that Journey both the inside stakeholders as well as the external stakeholders will always support you through your life. You know, let me give you an example right even with pay you when pay you bought Citrus on that day when we sold Citrus what was important to us was not just the fact that we had got a fantastic exit. But what is also important to us is that we got to make this acquisition successful that's really being honest both to a VC investor and the buying investor. If you can do that, you'll always you'll always be successful and How do founders know that you this is the right time to in the don't you lemon that today Citrus could be, you know a billion dollar company where look I got it wrong. Right? I've said this now a few times. I got it wrong. We should have never existed and I keep saying this has got nothing to do with the fact that Citrus would have been valued five times more absolutely. Nothing to do with that. It just goes back to that simple point with says once you have a platform the platform can go In too many many areas. I would have loved to take the platform into 15 you areas. So I'm sorry, but I'm just going to give you the simple answer which is if you have a successful startup don't sell I know the VC will not like what I am saying, but no, I I just felt that if you have a right platform, you can continue to build it and scale it and take it to who knows for how long so as for the This was listening when they get exit opportunity. What were your kind discussion between you and Justine when the Matrix of sorry the mask was offer wasn't able. Yeah, I think you know two or three things which were which were crucial to us, right, which is that. Oh, how can we grow the company forward and what we would have loved to do was continue to keep the ownership the same way and then continue to grow but naspers allowed us to play at a different level. We wanted to get a credit product out. And that meant a lot of funding we wanted to scale into many many areas on the core payments platform, which would have meant a lot of dilution for us witness was there is no concept of a delusion. So we wanted to grow the payments platform in the big way and we felt through naspers we could do that and that I think was a number one priority for us and I think that in a big way, I would say almost 60 70 percent drove our decision making No pressures from a VC or we are no other external pressures about why we would want to sell sell a business, you know, even if you would have continued with this as I said, we would have easily been four five times of what we were in those days. Thank you so much. Amrish your parting advice for entrepreneurs. No more building Ventures beat VC fundable or bootstrap. Yeah what the first principles you think they should relate from I keep saying this right if you think an opportunity is right go Go for it. Don't make it too complex, you know go enjoy yourself see what that experiences and and feel it firsthand. I you know saying this to somebody who's in this 20, it's a very easy one, but I see this to even people you know who are in their late 30s and early 40s, right you only live once if you don't truly go out and experiment do something completely different. You'll be left wondering that. Did you have it in you to build something completely different go? Pera meant, you know two years of your life to your own self. You deserve it. You should try and do entrepreneurship if that is what is bugging you or if that is what is exciting you absolutely go for it. Don't overthink it. These are the best times to do entrepreneurship in India.