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I want to start out with an introduction to your firm Simon creature and the work that you do in pricing. So Simon question Partners, we are regarded as the world's largest pricing strategy consulting firm. So we have done over 15,000 projects in this topic area. We've been founded 34 years ago. We are extremely Global. We have 40 offices worldwide 1300 Associates hundred and ten partners and we operate in 60 countries and essentially what we help our clients with. Is to improve everything on the top line so anything on the revenue profit, you know our growth side those are the topics that we totally deal with we left cost to the other. So we are a bit in the sunny set of Consulting. So I say so yeah, you're in the making money say making money. It's sunny say I like it that I want to come back to but before that maybe a quick introduction about yourself a short background. Yeah. Sure. I'm you know, I've been working with Simon culture for the past 11 years last eight as a partner and also last for in the board of a company prior to that. I was in school at Stanford GSB and also the you know, entrepreneur entrepreneurship group and they have my engineering degree as well and work for six years prior to that in India. I went to the Indian Institute of Technology in Chennai. That's a bit of my background. Okay, you follow crickets here. Ask a yes absolutely have me that's something I mean, you can't take out of someone right side all the time. Awesome. So good good to have you here. And then so I want to start out with my first question is when you talk about monetization, when should someone start thinking about monetization because the founders were listening some of them might be at idea see it Summit seed Summit Series and some Beyond so when should someone start thinking about it? Yeah. Shouldn't I think there is a there are two important lessons one is to think early and to to think often what I mean by that is more often than not companies, you know obsess over Building Products, you know getting the right. Let's say product-market fit that they are really postponing their pricing discussions to the very end or don't have a clear, you know plan to monetize. So pricing or monetization becomes an afterthought, right? I mean it It and and it's almost comes down to like oops we need a price. So let's slap something put it out in the market and see if it sticks. I mean, it's I'm drinking water here right now. So if someone asked me do you like this in a bottle, you know at two dollars, I would say, okay, it makes sense. But if it's a $20 the whole conversation is off. So unless you actually put pricing as part of your, you know, product Market fit validation often you're hearing what you want to hear. So I think the key lesson Van de ponerse is not just achieve a product Market fit. But achieve a product market pricing fit and that happens only when you do this early and often by early what I mean is having the early willingness to pay conversation as in as an entrepreneur or a company you actually don't have a choice as to whether you will have a you know pricing conversation with someone. The only thing that is in your control is when you will have it if you have it early you will you know, let's say you take a prototype a wireframe or any concept, you know, put it in front of a customer and says, you know try to have the same sales and marketing conversations that you would have after you build the product and if you can't convince someone that the product actually is going to deliver value chances are it won't you know, you won't be able to convince them after you build the product to right so having that sales and marketing and value conversation and essentially asking someone if they are willing to pay for that exchange of value and if someone is not then asking the most important question why And often you hear so many information that you can use to like tailor your product around customers needs value and their willingness to pay in short around the price. This is what we call as the design around the price mechanism for building products and you need to do this often because at various stages in the company or an idea you get you know signals for like various levels of accuracy, you know, six months to a year before you're launching your product is by far more important to get The order of magnitude, you know kind of right and then you hone in to like get to being more precise as your launch day comes and you are not scratching at that time your head and saying, okay. Oops. We know the price you already have a pricing strategy in place and does this apply only to one industry or one kind of or across Industries. We have some examples of sure. It applies across Industries. I mean, I would probably give you an example of an industry which is, you know, notoriously difficult to actually innovate sometimes. Automotive for instance, right? So there are we we start the book monetizing Innovation with a tale of two cars, right? I mean the first car in our tail is Dodge Dart which you know, there's a commercial which actually sort of almost in a documents that Innovation process it goes something like this right you build a car you perfect it. You're a bit of Engineers. You destroy the Prototype build it again. Wake up the next day build some more build some more because the notion is that you know, your customers don't necessarily have a You are an idea on what value is and as an entrepreneur you you kind of take the responsibility of like giving the best to the you know to your customers. So you obsess over building something they slap the price launched into the market. This was one in a car in the story another one Porsche Cayenne. This actually came about when you know Porsche wanted to launch an SUV at that time in the 90s. I mean they were if they were they were known for cars that used to drive like 200 miles per hour. So I mean I at that time it's it was issue. We probably I mean didn't it didn't even sound. I mean it was not sure it was like Ferrari launching SUV exactly. Right? But at that time they pass they were it was a bit path-breaking where what they did was interesting. They went and validated with the market whether there was a market for an SUV before they even productize anything and they're to the pleasant surprise. They actually found that there's a market but they also found that there's a willingness to pay for it, which was more important but Happened next was even more fascinating and The Innovation process could not have been more different than you know, the Dodge Dart every feature that actually went into the car was battle-tested with customers, right? So for instance, you know, big cup holders, which probably in a go against the grain of most German Engineers, right? I mean aesthetically doesn't look pleasing but its value oriented people needed it they valued it and they're willing to pay for it. So it was in the car in the SUV and a 6-speed manual transmission for An SUV people didn't need it. They didn't value it. They were not willing to pay for it out of the car. Right? So everything was actually battle-tested with customers. They even had like, you know prototypes that people could drive around give feedback, you know, but everything was centered around not just giving feedback on a product Market fit but also on a product market pricing fit, like I said earlier having that willingness to pay conversation early and the you know, when you take these two cars the fate of these two cars Have been you know, even more dramatically opposite just like that Innovation processes, right? I mean in in 2014 in it was I think 2016 Dodge Dart was actually called by market Watchers like the you know, second biggest Innovation flop it took a few years and they faded out from the Horizon never successful because they built a car with a plethora of features that no one was speaking at a price point that no one was willing to pay at the end. Of the day just did not resonate with any particular segment of customers. Right? And if you take the Porsche Cayenne extremely successful probably one of the most successful launches in automotive more than a hundred thousand units a year and it accounts for more than 50% of Porsches profit. So when you look at that as an example of a designing the product around having this customer needs value and willingness to pay conversation in automotive to like something like from my background. I mean, I'm I work routinely with No technology companies and have probably worked with over a hundred and fifty companies in the tech space mostly in software internet to set at marketplaces platform companies in a mobile companies Etc unicorns and others. We've now worked with over 30 plus unique on says Simon Kucha and I personally work with a about close to 20 of them. All of these principles stand exactly as the portion of the Dodge examples. I think there is no I would say there is no we that can't benefit from this kind of thinking majority of the stories are all so relatable in the book and it's we also chose a and built a framework that is applicable across Industries, but certain principles might actually apply more or less for certain industries and we emphasize that also in the book got it. Maybe let's jump and talk about why you wrote the book and maybe and let's start talking about the book. Yeah why I wrote the book. That's that's an interesting Journey. So I think it probably traces back. Bit like why I decided to join Simon Kutcher and partners after my you know time at the GSB at Stanford and also the engineering school there in classic fashion, you know having trying to graduate from Stanford and we had a team of like four people we had an idea. We're trying to launch our company, you know, probably like many of your Founders that are listening to this podcast trying to launch our own idea and you know, we went and pitched this idea, too. A bunch of VCS and and I was in charge of like the marketing plan so to speak and and I remember being asked this question saying, you know, how do you know that you would monetize on this idea and and I look back and I said, okay, I pulled up a spreadsheet with all kinds of assumptions and I showed it to him and it was very quick for him to like dismiss it and he said you've labeled those correctly those assumptions. How do you truly know and that question kind of haunted me drove. And within a week as has you know, as fate would have it my managing partner that time Matt Johnson from Simon cucho he gave a call and he said hey, we are looking for you know, Stanford grads and we are the world's largest pricing strategy consulting firm. And honestly, I didn't even know that something like this even existed as well as most Founders and entrepreneurs. I thought pricing was more of an art but I discovered the science in the last Last, you know 11 years and working with so many many companies and and and I think it also traces back a bit to like, you know, pricing never been necessarily taught as a topic area and as an entrepreneur founder, you don't even have access to like a lot of knowledge around what pricing means and and majority of the work that I've been doing in Silicon Valley and San Francisco has been working with companies who are probably thrown products up against the wall. Hoping that it's takes they need a pricing strategy. Allergy or a commercialization strategy to make it, you know, make it big Revenue growth profit topics and they thought about pricing too late sometimes and we try to undo it. So I decided to write this book along with our CEO George Tucker and sort of, you know, come up with our principles as Simon could share what we have learned in the last 34 plus years trying to like codify that into a book as to like, you know, how to really about pricing and what are the Frameworks and really give back a bit to like these Founders and entrepreneurs and educate them that it's a bit of a sigh more more of a science than an arch and I mean, we honestly we could have written a lot of marketing, you know fluffy crappy books, but we truly meant to give back a bit to like the community in terms of what we know is and who we are and I think that's really what drove me to write this book and you know, here we are talking about the podcast today. That's great.