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Looks like you've studied the companies that have lasted longer. Right? What have they done when a lik we touch upon some of this and they reinvented or what's Captain go as you know, staying power of the word that you know, we use a lot is the word staying power staying power is a combination of a lot of things but attention to detail and ambition are two ends of a barbell. So how do you balance the two? When you really being customer-centric, you know, you have to be extremely customer-centric. And you know, I have learned two words from the Japanese culture which are very near and dear to me. One is the word Gamma 1 gamma means stoic endurance. You have to walk on fire to get to the other side because the world will continue to remind you that you don't belong I mean the mob knows only two things either the mob knows how to do idol worship. Or a Witch Hunt there's nothing in the middle right for the mom actually and you basically need to be on the other side or this side lightly. You don't belong or yes, you've arrived nothing that you do will not turn into gold acting and that is the right of passage of any company that actually has the staying power to be relevant in the world and reinvent itself every 10 years. I mean what we are doing now to stay relevant is to reinvent ourselves one more Look subscription and with being multi-cloud and knowing what we means to virtualize the cloud and all that is a new problem statement that we didn't have 10 years ago. And how do you keep your people into staying with missionaries who are looking at nebulous problems and still go and give out Solutions every six months a year so that the customers know what this even means. What if we to virtualize the cloud very nebulous. Ulis problem but they all have this location disadvantage of being in silos of computing. So there is a world out there that says look I can create an integration fabric that helps you drag and drop your experience of computing from one location to another I think, you know this balance of attention to detail in ambition and being extremely customer-centric is the core of the staying power in so the one word that I forgot talk about Japanese one was gone. Domineer the other way is code. Owari godavari is actually the attention to detail piece. You know, it's the pursuit of perfection. It's what does it mean to really know what Delight means, you know, I think the word delight comes out in front of customers. If you have worked really hard to think about their friction and the day in the life of in the week in the life of in the month in the life of your customers and This is applicable across the board who your customers whether it's an Enterprise. Absolutely absolutely so last couple of questions you talked about the Phi H is hungry humble honest heart and humor if we touch upon them quickly as s five years that every entrepreneur should think I mean every entrepreneur should have values which are permanent. Yeah, the cultural principles keep changing because the culture keeps more thing. So the how of the values keep But the values are the true north, you know, and for us we had to keep it simple because we had employed in so many countries so it had to be words that could easily translate to other languages. So we chose a three hungry humble and honest. Okay, and then over time we said no, we also have to figure out what does it mean to be a company that believes in giving and partnering and stuff in and it's applicable just as much on the inside of the company as it's outside. It's not just about Corporate social responsibility and more. In tearing its thinking a lot about giving and it's become very relevant on the inside as more and more silos of come to form as organizations become bigger. Everybody has their myopic view of what they do as opposed to don't need to clean the streets up. We can just have clean homes. You have to clean the streets. You have to really be participating neighborhood watches and community building and all that stuff. So hot actually helps us with this notion of giving and finally, I think I have To realize that humor is my own personal addition to this. I mean, we haven't added to the company values but it matters, you know, when you're sitting in meetings and we use our head a lot, you know and companies that balance the head with the heart that balance a lot of head with humor will be able to make it fun along the way because it's important to actually have fun while you're building stuff while it's hot out there and you know, except for customers and employees. And there's very few people who actually want you to survive because most of the world mean you're going in disrupting someone else and it comes with so much pressure that without fun. Not fun that that's a great one. Maybe it does upon humility alone. Why is that important as a founder or a CEO? You know, it's tied to the word o Volver ability, which I've come to embrace because of Mike Robbins and Brené Brown Mike Robbins talks about The spectrum of authenticity use the word authentic on the left of the spectrum is dishonest people, you know people you just don't want to work with even spend a minute with because they just drain your energy spend that kind of time with them and in the middle of the spectrum is honest people. So, you know, all of a sudden he left wow throws a curveball and honesty is not good enough and then he argues that you know, you have to take something out of honesty and add something to honesty honesty to make it authentic. Say so his thing is that you take out self-righteousness because honest people can be self-righteous to so, you know, they got to take out self-righteousness which basically means if I'm right you must be wrong. That's what self-righteousness is due to acid makes re is it ego or well ego is probably a little bit about self and but it does tie back to yes and self-righteousness a little bit. But yeah, he's like take out self-righteousness and Advil. Ability, which is a very contrarian thing to say that wow, how a business how can you add vulnerability because you know, you have to appear that you're perfect and it's impregnable and whatever you do is just perfect. I mean awesome and so on. So I think it's a contrarian way of thinking and it has brought a lot of clarity to me as well. When I'm presenting when we're thinking about messaging and positioning when front of customers, how do you stays stays subservient? Because the something be said about being a subservient leader as well actually, you know, so the award vulnerability has become really important for us. In fact, there's another Spectrum very much like Mike Robinson has that Nicholas still actually argues for it's an anti fragility know so he's like on the left of the spectrum is fragile systems middle of the spectrum is resilient systems, which means that they go back to the original state the restored to the original state which is not good enough. It's not good enough to be resilient if you like if you can get better with shocks. Not just on a short you go back to your original state, but you can actually get into a better State. Yeah after the shock that's a real real win. And in fact in nature, he argues there's many such things that antifragile so our bones our immune system, you know, they're all very much on the lines of antifragility. So, how can you make businesses antifragile? How can you make leaders antifragile? How can we make products in now the ML and self-learning and self-healing can we make them antifragile? So the word humility is sort of tied to that. It's like okay. Can you be vulnerable enough to be humble and it helps in a lot of ways and I think the way the new CEOs of these big companies you see whether it's at their or Sunder or shantanu. I know they all start with s. Yeah, I think even dhara and boober. Yeah, they all come with humility because it's a very different world out there. That's that's great last question. Any tips on balancing family and being an entrepreneur? Yeah. Yeah. It's a hard one. Actually. I mean you really are doing this entrepreneurship with your significant other and they have to be as much a partner in this as you are. They might not be coming to your office, but they are pretty much as involved in this because otherwise, if not, it's very hard to run a robust Venture of any kind act. You know, I mean you are at War and when you go home, you don't want to be at War by it's so important that you reduce friction and really have it be a joint sort of goal both the company as well as the company at home, which is in a whether it's children or your parents. Whatever. I'm not the best of fathers I could do a lot more in terms of spending time with my children. Not the best of husbands like do a lot more. But it's important to have the humility to go and at least Cesar. He's in the thank yous and really not. Sort of re not believing that your professional goals. Are yours alone? You have to think it is actually something that you share with your spouse. And with that. I think they'll be a little bit more peace at home so that you can be at War Outsider that's amazing advice.