Hello, Kimmy. Yeah - I can hear you and yeah under grateful. I'm doing good. I'm doing good. So how's the day? Okay. Yeah. I did. It has been great. But you know I'm struggling in Kali and All oh you kids in college. I'm doing my first year in civil engineering from Oregon college in Kayla. So, you know while doing b.tech, there are some problems like you get assignments projects and all the stuff comes along with the engineering dignity. So yeah, it's been hectic. But yeah, I am doing red. Okay, that's one is doing so many things at one time. Yeah, that's that's the main problem of meet again that that's that's what that's what you get as an advantage like you you you just try to manage everything it single-handedly and you you just become good at multitasking. Okay, you're by yourself. You are a learner and observer. Right? Did I did I did it, right? Yeah. Yeah, exactly and I hope so people. I just don't mind observing people for a long time. Like I sometimes used to sit in regular season and best and then just, you know, let the situation unravel and just see what other people are doing. That's poking their nose in the back. That's pretty much me. I also do the same. But I do these things places as well. I I have been I've stayed in game Kolkata for a long time. So there is this place this is red light area basically, so that's that's good to be my hangout place. I used to see lot of colorful characters. Yeah, and that may be usable. It's really interesting, you know, just to think to yourself in their shoes and what they might be doing and where they might be thinking. Yeah. That that area becomes well lit at night and there are so many people as if like, there's a shopping mall open up so during that time there were no shopping mall in Calcutta. That was like I'm talking about 90s that would only area that used to be open late night late night, or I'm in till morning till wee hours. So I used to see all the females and males and you know it that that's a business pot. So but but the the different kind of business II suppose you And so yeah, I can do that. You know seeing that I get a lot of thought I about the character about you know, how you know how this night life is, you know engaging me how I am able to read the faces and you know, the characters and the language and the business and that was that was probably the only place that you used to get tea. Like to 2 a.m. In the morning, so we'll do the same with the morning. Yeah, so this is on right now Calcutta is like they have a night life right now, but then I'm talking about 90 so that yeah, it's late. Now, we have miles and about the streets. Oh, yeah. I mean as you said that you have you know places like you've been to places like railway station and bus station and You observe correct. So what what do you what do you get? Is there sort of is it your high or your satisfaction or you know you just you just think you're just being you know when we are when we are alone or when we are hello giving holiday. Are last yeah, you can hear me can't can can you hear me? Hello? Hello. Are you yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know, you know, this this connection is really bad. Can you hear me now? Hello. Hello. Hello and I okay. Yeah, I can hear you. I can hear you. Yeah, this election is really bad. Yeah, I think so, but I'm connected over here with my wife. I know. Okay, great. So I when I watched the people, you know, what we used to do is we we always think about ourselves when we are alone or when we are thinking we think about our future we think about our past and what we are going to thank you, but when we, you know, see other people and look into their life like this experienced at least one fraction of a second and what they are experiencing we get the whole lot of big picture of what's going on like, you know, focusing on other people like All you see that everybody's rushing to work in the morning. Everybody is enjoying the nightlife exactly when you're when you're in developed countries, maybe probably in North America really anyway, some sort of individualism that is going on out there. I mean most people live alone and their family even if they have a family just consists of a couple of members. Maybe two or three but in in in Indian household if you are not staying at far away from home, if you are at home, you got your parents sister brother. Grandmother grandparents did all those people did not know at least more than five members in the family. This constitutes a very good buddy. So I see that you're a voice actor and a writer tell me about your job or occupation and that's the Really interesting tell me more about what has enough voice acting but then when you don't expose your expression it is it is - - the video thing right when you act when you moved by a voice when when you express by your voice, so that is that is a note. There is a voice actor normally people say people term it as voice over artist, but then voice actor is Ooh preferable because I I used to do a lot of you know voice overs and voice acting for kids character in cartoon and all the regional character. Right? I mean the cartoon is it translated and then before that a man died, I was a radio jockey in couple of stations. Yeah, so I used to do radio shows and on basically Hindi. So obviously in this by default, you know it is I'm very good at that language. So I used to do shows late night shows and that's long 2010. I left radio then after that I started, you know, writing writing in the sense writing for ad agencies writing copies writing short copies and writing about products writing about living things not right. Copywriter after radio. I I jumped topic. Right. So you do with the okay exactly because these are some of the interesting, you know, these are very these kind of stuff right? I beg your pardon and you get you so first, I mean, okay these that your voice is breaking and voice acting, right? Okay, great. So I was telling you that this is some of the job that I'm really interested in because not many people do this kind of stuff. Okay. So the first part is writing copywriting. How how did it get into copywriting? Because it's the new trending topic right? I mean before a decade ago if you say that you are a copywriter. You have to you the point. How should I explain you should be able to teach the romance with Nam non non living things. Okay, so let's suppose suppose if I if I get a deodorant right you order it is my product, right? Okay. So I need to write something about Jordan so that that that line can be approved by client and then you know, they can attach that line and that product can be sold. So you need you need to you need to give a life to the product. See a lot of deodorant is not romantic to you, right? Is it here? No. Okay. So you're basically emotionally connecting the product or the users, right? Yes. So you need to think a lot before even you know falling in love with someone right now it is I mean, I'll be a republican who thought you used to fall in love. Ho get the hoagie, right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. You need to think a lot. In getting you know, you don't need to think you just need to emote. We just need to be there. You just need to feel the thing. Okay, and this is a deodorant and deodorant. What about a deodorant can do to a person Orson is attached to our my suppose if I'm not using a deodorant, right but to write something about deodorant it becomes a enough. Yeah, or make sure how you do. How do you do that? Let's put that's what I may be proud of that. You won't be using. Yeah, I mean like like a like a you know, for example a car battery. Okay, and I got a product of a car battery when I when I used to you know, when I when I only had a bike so I don't know what is over this. I used to see car, but I don't know how to drive a car and what and the car battery is like a to Big battery, right? So you need to write something about Or you know back up and it gives you a long life. So you get you get some you get someone liners from client, but it depends depends more on your fantasy and more on your romance with the product when I say romance romance is like, you know, it's very easy to romance with a living a living thing. Right? Yeah, and then they must be provided but but it is very tough to romance with nonliving things. So you get you once you get in the prop once you get in the process, okay, so these becomes easy initially. Nothing nothing is easy whether it is whether it is whether it is voiceover with it is copywriting. Nothing is easy initially. So during the process you learn a lot you you learn how to deviate from the cliche or you learn how to learn how to think from Tangent you learn how to you know how to write something beautifully, you know, hey how to decorate your writing how to how to enhance your voice how to Big International bring into nation in your tonal quality. So I'm talking in reference to voice in writing. Yeah. Okay and even switch or is also very crucial like for example, you're writing a you are writing a copy for a product which is a deodorant then suddenly Lee a client comes he says see right on my geezer So from from deodorant to Geezer, so it's like a switch over it's finished deodorant. And now Geezer is there in front of you again a nonliving thing a little big in size. You start Romancing with the product or Giza what visa gives me it gives me a warm rain warm water in here in Winters right you yeah thing comes in when you relate. When you again, as you said you are you are an observer or learner, you are below first, then you learn. Okay? Yeah, I guess that observation or observation is very important in any in any job or any whatever you want to do in life you need to up first and then learn and then you acute or then you whatever deliver so it's a part of the process. You need to good with you need, you know, you need to be good with vocabulary as well. Vital value writing right? You mean the computer choose Words, which are less used and that has more impact. Okay, and these less usual won't they be confusing for the users? I mean if you are using less use not recording booth one day not less used use less visited at time or times with okay? Okay, there are words that that are lying dormant. They were used at some point of time, but then today nobody is using them. So okay early if we can just give me some examples for these words. We want me to go into the copywriting days. Okay, I click I can give you a pie an example by a poetry. Okay, you understand Hindi? No, not really not say because it becomes a tough a little tough for me, but then I'll come up with some example during the course of conversation it is there in my head, but then as if now I could think of alien because I've done so many things like this so it It becomes a part of the process. So it has to be I have to think and then Express and think and then tell you okay. What is that word which is like less visited and then I have used in some point of time and then that word becomes popular. So so I definitely let you know or I can I can message you in the you know, the chat box at all. Sure interesting. So one more question about this copywriting thing. Okay. Yeah, so I've been looking into this copywriting and You know researching on Google and YouTube and I also checked on udemy for some copy writing courses. And as a matter of fact when I come across these videos and courses on udemy, for example, what is he is a couple of book recommendations. Not really a couple that has enough book recommendation. Okay, and this book recommendation has nothing to do with copyright in these are just general kind of position book which helps us to you know, persuade people what what you see in most copywriting videos. And what you see in most copy writing courses is to use compelling words. I mean, you know instead of writing how to be happy. You are I think just you know Phi Phi tools and tricks to be happy, you know, just by adding a number just by having a precise number you just, you know, get more excited about the topic and you know, just using by powerful words instead of you use excited. So these are some of the tricks that I come across. What do you think about beginning a copywriting career? And how do you think is a perfect way to launch a career into copywriting? See it is it is very simple at times at times. You do need to think like a lay man when your copywriting see, okay. Pure awesome is one line, right? You are great you are you are fantabulous. You are fabulous. Last thing is you are like me. So which is more impact which has more impact. Why am I okay URI is why are all the attributes or all the adjectives when I can say that you like me? So that one line connects me to you instantly. So copywriting is as simple as that, I would advise you not to watch any videos not to read any book, but I try to read poetry. Okay, fire tree. Yeah, because until and and it's a very transactional game you will be dealing with the products which will make you very unromantic. Yeah, if you're talking about the nonlinear part, like for example the car back thing. It's going to be tough It's Only The Poetry that can save you a poet. See I'm a poet also, by the way, so a poet laureate can be a very good copywriter. I'm not very good. But that's me being a poet. I can say that because there are there are times when the product is so sad. So sad that really you That really depresses me. Like if I'm going to write about a leprosy Institute, right? Uh-huh. What will I write? This is so sad. Yeah already a children suit our society for AIDS or maybe some NGO of maybe blind school if I need to write an ad about blind school, huh? Let's very sad. Yeah. Yeah, I get that. Yeah, so you need to be happy to think okay, if you're not happy you cannot think sad also. Happiness is the very strongest emotion. If you're happy, you can write any emotion humor is the best emotion for me. However, human body is really humid. Do you think that humor works for closing a deal like after all the final purpose of a copywriting is to close a deal by words, right? So humoring a consumer does that builds trust and emotion you can You too. Laurie can get an entire world by humor really because a company doing you know, when you are going to a website or when you see that you don't really see any kind of human conduct in it. Right? I'm talking about the most common at that UBC and televisions may be in radio or maybe in just random websites. You know, for example is just a hypothetical situation. For example, the cache line of re-emerges the complete man. Okay? Yeah. Yeah, Raymond says that they did some audio-visual going on and the casting is the complete a complete map. Yeah a complete man. What goes behind it is a very simple line what goes behind a complete man lot of discussion. On how a fabric can be related to a man. Okay. So yeah, but but daily remaining with us two things right, but then when a copyright win a copy writer talks to himself, right? He he will not have one emotion. Trust me. He will try he will try to find humor. He will try to find happiness. He will try to find poetry. Okay, and then he comes with with those word which will not have either of these things. That's the trigger see a creative man A Creative creative guy who is doing a copy. He needs a lot of Trigger. He needs a trigger from lot of emotion. Yeah, he needs to be happy in his to be sad. He needs to be a flirt he needs to you know walk around with a stranger for a mile. I'm talking about successful copywriters who Like who just give one line and it it it it it goes It goes and fetches business for on crores. Yeah, that's one day. We don't you think that man whose whose one line is sold for crores don't you think that man has emotions in him? Definitely everybody has smooth even if that's the rainbow. That's he is. He has to live all the characters in himself. You you are you are appealing you are making a product which is as small as a toothbrush. Like I remember in my school days. There was this action shoes and identity would be our identity toothbrush. Okay. This is one line, which says the ajanta this is very easy in the you can understand why Jonathan to toothbrush Papa kumanyika bayaka origin Tamira. Simple okay. It's everybody in the family. Yeah, he's covering everyone and then and actually shoes this is just this is only one line school time action car school time relating in time but issues whenever it is a school time it is action time, right? Okay. So yeah, so do you think these these these type of transactional lines will come without humor without putting Tree without a range of emotions. Every club now again, if you if you are given a product if somebody says see these are the shoes and these are designed for ladies. Right and I want to copy from this happy from you. And these are designed for the ladies who are who move in who are Niche Niche crowd. They they spend around 40 50 thousand in their cosmetics. Yeah, that's right. But as Matic is a basic interest. That's what I'm saying to you. How will you how will you take it? Okay, so that's very interesting if see first of all, I would advise you not to watch any video in everything just stay right at try to write something about as small as a let's say remote a TV remote, okay. Make tea to make TV a talk to that talk to the product. Make TV remote your friend and he is your friend, by the way. Nowadays mobile is your friend. That's a different story. But then 10 to 15 years back the TV remote the TV remote was your friend. Yeah. Okay. So what sports was television Watcher music channels? Definitely. So there's a character that is that is given to the remote right? Where does this where does this thinking comes from from your mind? Yeah, okay, so you can basically disconnecting the emotion with the nonliving things right now. You got it. Okay, great. So don't bother download materials and stuff. Just tried to nonliving things. Okay. So how did you first get into this industry? I mean the copywriting it is tree Etc normal job to do in our space rate in India. That's not normal job to do and are you doing freelance? Are you working in a company? And how did you get your first client? That's the long story short. I was in radio. I used to be an anchor, right? Yeah. So right anchoring night shows and on. Okay, really? I thought now I should go you know behind the scenes. Okay. Let me make sure I'm getting the content instead of sending the content because let's let me write for Or the station. Let me let me write promos or Jingles for the radio station. Okay, did you use that as in small songs for a deal? Yeah. Yeah, so I started doing it and in the process I fell in love with that. Okay fine. This is more exciting than talking for four hours continuously. So at least I'm not talking. I'm not wasting my energy. Okay, and now you find writing more interesting than talking. I got fed up of anchoring for you know for I guess three to four years five years. I was fed up. I don't know why people carry so much long, but then I got fed up because writing is started lighting me. Okay, when I started writing writing writing writing Jingles then I right then then this radio jockey came came up to me said hey you write Jingles. Why can't you write a promo for my show? Hmm. He said, yeah, I can write a promo for your show. And I start eating I came up with a promo then he said fine. Let's record it be recorded. So it was coming out good so I don't let me become a programming writer as well. I'll write for me radio station. Okay, then the I see I became a part of the process. I don't know. What was my first break and who gave me the make it was within the company I decided to go behind the scene like from anchoring to Dating okay, the process one the process was very much an inclination rather than a choice. All right, fine answer. The first inclination was in the radio jockey but I mean in the radio, so but that basically is a creative writing. I mean those jingles and those promos it's probably more leaning towards creative writing rather than copywriting copywriting is you know, it's a call to action kind of stuff rate. So How do you land up in a copywriting job? And is it something related to freelancing? I mean are you do are you employed by your old are you working by? Your are you still working? Yeah, I am I am doing a bit of copywriting but then I'm not getting paid for that. Right? Okay, you're not paid for copywriting. How can that be? That's what I'm saying. Try and understand in India very few organizations or companies. They had a full-time copywriter very few. Aha those who have a budget to pay for those who have become those who have big clients only the big names have this component names. They hire a complete copy writer as in designation. Okay, other than that a lot of the companies they hire CDs at is hasn't creative director. So if director does a lot of thing, he does the content exposure heater the ideation. He does the copywriting as well. So copy link becomes free. Cost for Creative development. Okay. So in a big company, there is a proper designation for a copywriter. If you're writing C copywriter differs from place from medium to medium. If you put a radio, you are a different copywriter different in in in in in the in the creative atmosphere. I would say if you're in for television, you become more independent independent independent sense that you can visualize your copy. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, you can only order. Realize your copyright. Yeah become more independent more free and and and you know more more to experiment as your dialogues or your your cache line, you know, you can find Akshay Kumar or mammootty or whatever we say so you hi. Okay, fine. He's saying my lines that is Television, right? Yeah. So copywriting differs from place to place from medium to medium. You just need to switch. See I can I can copy. Wait for for a TV see a television ad I can copyright for a let's see a brand tire tagline. I can copyright for a radio. I'm very comfortable copy copy writing for a radio even at the even television. So but then we you you need a very an organization which is which is ready to digest that. Okay fine. I can have a copywriter on my own. Yeah, and there's very few. You organization in India again doing that when I started copywriting they were no organization which had copyright as a designation is just that it comes as a as a part in parcel. Look if I and you are you are in Creative. So do this also, yeah now I get that now it is going like mad people are hiring for a copyright recent blog SEO copywriting digital marketing and social media marketing these candles out. That eyes in the past decade rate may be one of these little dedicated all of these kind of jobs are very different. Yeah copyright the as I said copywriting differs from medium to medium. There is broken there is a cut to cut copy writing as well. I mean when you see content writing is different from copywriting. Yeah, are you confused or do you know that? No, I know the difference because I've been first into content writing. I mean I was writing a few Blocks, okay, probably the early is and right now I'm focusing more on SEO and copywriting and all those things. Okay, and have you tried freelancing because I see a lot of books. I mean a lot of books on Fiverr and other kind of freelancing for copywriting and voice artists as well because this is rare. I mean voice that voice artists who is speaking good English and accounted writer as well as a copyright. These are some of the rare jobs that you can also do the freelancing websites. You are you need to get the right party contact the brother. There are many people who will say come and register and you'll get work right you after you pay something from a debit card and they were keeps coming. Yeah, but in spite of that there are some cute legitimate actually like legitimate. But then, you know you need that kind of first you see the kind of work that you're looking for. You cannot do anything and everything, right? Yeah, it should say like if there is a requirement for let's say a cartoon character with a with a basic nasal tone or a baritone. So that that that's it. That is my interest. I'll take that. I'll take that offer. Okay fine. I can do that. These are my voice samples take my voice sample. Is it if it is matches? Then this is my rate. A charger for 10 seconds. I charge that's a thousand rupees for example. So this works for me. I know okay, great. Of course you find out your area of Interest. Okay, see if you are writing something for travel blog or maybe something, you know, let's say copywriting. Let's say what what are your area of Interest first of all, you need to define the Okay, but see if you can write down for anything and everything unless you write plus you write for the area you will you that appeals to you the most hmm and if you and you visit these websites and all they will give you all the job work available. Okay, this is this is this and this voiceover or this in this copywriting of this in this content is available. So exactly what and when you're registering me in this site. You can select the job for you. I mean, you can create a profile for you and you can you know mention your experience and the kind of job that you are looking for and finally when the time contacts you you can deny or allow them to make a business with you. So Which you have more freedom as well as you have more money. Yeah, I'm at Sea freelancing is that the contract should keep coming to you? Yeah, it is. I'm not seeing that it's a stable income or Gates and never never Steven come because you need to you know, in two three four Frizzle freelancing options. Yeah, you need to go before freelancing options. Okay fine. I can do this. I can do that. I can do this. So if there are three four income areas Yeah that you will be happy as a comparator. Otherwise copywriters are not happy. Yeah, I'm not suggesting you to you know, just go for freelancing all out. Don't do that. But since you said since you mentioned that you are not getting anything paid for your copywriting business, I guess freelancing is your Optimum task see what I am doing is I am into concept and ideas right that you know, if I avoid And doing copywriting. I can't avoid if I am thinking of a concept that is full of copywriting a concept a concept comes with copywriting at different stages. Okay, I a creative director if I'm designing a concept for a let's say let's say of water water cooler a new bike launched. All right, right. So I will decide what to do where to go. Which mall to go how to how to Market that so and in between a thing, what will the cache line of that by so copyright operating is coming to me automatically because I'm being a big I'm into a bigger picture than copyright. I'm on sexualizing and ideating for clients. So this is K becomes automatically, so I cannot say see I have given you the exposure of a big campaign and I have give you the cast and also so pay me the penny for the cast line separately. Yeah, they say come with a full package. I will give you charge me for the full package not for the not for the you know, individual things that you do. Okay, so you are not strictly being a complete copy writer, but you are basically being a creative director direct. I'm a creative director who who is compelled to do voice. I somehow unfortunate of me that I cannot charge. Okay, so if what if what would be happening at the copywriter don't move ahead in life. Don't become a creative director or if you become a creative director get ready to face this shit. Okay. Hi, are you going profile they'll be a lot of things that you have to do free of cost? Okay that yeah, I if you are in the creative industry, I just heard from maybe at the beginning and do they deliver a state? I mean unless you are an expert you got to do some stuff or maybe for just a couple of dollars of couple of rupees destroy your existence become free for pubic hair. Your life is your life will be but then but then you'll become at one point. You become controlled. You know how to answer people you you become. You become a person who knows how to sell their nose. Hmm But that that that takes a lot of expertise him as well. Okay, I don't even I don't you know, I don't gel well around with the people who are trying to exploit and then actually I give them a very good rationale was if you are doing this the impact is this So do you want me to go ahead to which the sir? No, no, no, no. Okay. Okay, you decide to sell your expertise to them they'll be they'll be taken aback. They'll be afraid electing people want to exploit it. Yeah relationships and emotion. The best way to avoid exploitation is to use your expertise. Okay, whatever whatever weapon they are, you know throwing at all. Maybe you know gun, I'm gonna lick you up here. Just just move just tilt it towards them just move it towards them. Let them feel the heat. Yeah, so maybe that's how you become sorted at some point of time a creative person also become sorted. Okay fine. This is this is enough. This is my answer. Let's do it see in any in any industry. The creative guy is the most important way. Yeah, but the industry not the most patient guy, but they are not never been the most paid guys who will pay them. Yeah, that's a problem. People don't people don't consider creating jobs as a job. There you go. Dave. Let me in trouble. They think that thinking is easy. Yeah, basically writing it is clear thinking. Yeah, I Divine writing I think it is clear thinking. Yeah, so tell me something more about your experience as a radio jockey. It's experience as a presenter and experiences using your voice for your income. How does that feel like and how did you get into it? So chapter we have it separately. Okay, and this tell me about how did you begin it? How did how did you get into it? Okay, that's that's the in a very beautiful story you can but I need to go somewhere. We will shake right? Yeah. Okay fine. You're busy we can we join again sometime later tomorrow. Yeah. Sure maybe in the evening tomorrow. I'd be free. Okay. All right, fine. Okay, we can talk tomorrow we can do it right definitely it was nice talking to you. Okay. Great. Okay. Thanks a lot. Thank you. What's a night or evening? What word is that? Oh, yeah. Good night. Okay. Good night. Good night.